Sports? Marriage? Relationships? Professional environment? Pronouns?
Does it change based on the cause of the person’s intersex diagnosis?
This is really off-topic, but I will let it stay up as long as it doesn’t derail.
Lol big L mod
How is this off topic? I’m asking for conservatives views in the conservative community, in a thread I made.
We stick to news articles, opinion pieces, etc to talk about current events. R2 states it must be pro-consecutive or anti-liberal. This is neither.
So the rules don’t matter, only your opinion does.
Something that’s turned me off of “modern” conservatism is that “modern” MAGA assholes simply refuse to believe that intersex people exist.
A reasonable Conservative following Jesus’s word should note that Jesus hung out with the leapers, Jesus not just condoned but celebrated heretics like the Samaritans, and Jesus always favored the “outsider’s opinion”. A true Christian should always be accepting of others, including Intersex people. Especially intersex, they are creations of God and if you believe that God is good then the creation of God is good.
The problems occur when the assholes start to think that Intersex is bad, anti-conservative, anti-religion or some shit. Then all of a sudden you trigger the fight-or-flight response and Conservatives lash out. There’s also a degree of historic anti-gay writings in the Bible (ex: Sodom, as well as some writings from Paul), that somehow get wrapped up into intersex issues (somehow gay == intersex in some unstudied people’s brains?!?!? Or something). I don’t want to get into homosexuality and the Bible as that’s another subject but note that ancient Roman and Greek practice of homosexuality was a bit child-rapey and Paul’s writings may have not necessarily been talking about homosexuals in general (but instead: Paul was likely focused on the kinds that were more common in the time period, which we would find disgusting by modern standards)
In any case, I feel like the religious interpretation is clear. Every person is holy, outsiders are welcome. If you need to denegrate Intersex individuals and call them diseased (like the Leapers of Biblical time), whatever, that’s still a group of people Jesus explicitly called out as holy, as the Leapers were more ready and willing to accept Jesus’s preaching than the Pharisees. But I’m not even comfortable with the Leaper -> Intersex comparison myself as that implies some kind of disease. Still, I think its a good crutch that more Christians should lean upon if you’re finding yourself anti-Intersex.
A lot of modern Conservatism is actually warned against by Jesus and the various parables of the Pharisees. Its not that “Jews” in general were problematic, but certain… cults? Certain… ways of thought and ideologies… are based on false pride and false-understanding of the scriptures. And smarter people find themselves in this doom loop where you want to join the people who have studied more (the Pharisees were scribes and scholars)… but you end up missing the forest for the trees.
Jesus always said to take a step back and look at the big picture, rather than being so focused on scripture. Scripture can be interpreted incorrectly, to the point where the Pharisees scholars create a conspiracy to literally kill and crucify Jesus. The fact that the core Easter message is lost upon modern Conservatives is ironic.
Expect a weird take on the subject backed by no data
what do you mean? people with a variety of intersex conditions have been extensively documented by medical science.
Well yes but you asked for the conservative view
I grew up in a very conservative neighborhood in a very conservative town and went to a very conservative religious school. There was no sex-ed but there was a class on hygiene. There was no dancing but there was a “banquet” at which they served rice pilaf and rubbery chicken breast from a steam table.
There was never any mention of gay people, trans, intersex or anything else except that sex was reserved for a man and a woman after they were married.
The only exception to the above is the mention of eunuchs by Jesus in Matt 19:22. But what is a eunuch? I was told it was a person who had their genitals cut off and lived a life of celibacy.
Based on my experience alone, I would say that a common conservative attitude and policy is to ignore, deny and/or never acknowledge anything that’s not straight man+woman married for the purpose of having children.
In the case of the boxing woman, it’s interesting to think that if you only have two categories and you have to put her into one, some people put her in one category and some the other, but there doesn’t seem (to me) to be any clear objective way to tell which is right. This could be an indication that there really are more than 2 genders.
Or it could be that a cisgender woman of color whose body doesn’t conform to fascist eugenic purity standards is being targeted because she’s a better boxer than the white women and well, racism.
Imo, do whatever you want. The only caveat is in very specific situations like women’s sports, where fairness is an issue. Testosterone is a steroid, and is banned from most leagues. Unfortunately, mtf trans women still produce steroids, and is unfair to cis women. And since the whole point of women’s sports is for them to be able to compete fairly, trans women are in a bind
It’s no one’s fault really, just an unfortunate biproduct of evolution.
Testosterone is a steroid, and is banned from most leagues.
Let’s clarify this a bit. Testosterone is a steroid, but so is vitamin D. Testosterone is NOT banned for any competition, but being out of range is banned. A man at 750 would be normal.
A woman at 100 would be abnormal. A woman at 750 is on juice.
A bodybuilder can be in the range of 2000-4000. I have heard as high as 6,000.
Unfortunately, mtf trans women still produce steroids, and is unfair to cis women
Women produce testosterone as well. Their range is 15-70
A trans woman may produce testosterone, but once they have an orchiectomy, they will no longer produce and may have to supplement.
That said, an intersex woman like the one at the Olympics is not a trans woman. She was born with a genetic defect, which allows he to produce more testosterone.
It’s tricky as I don’t know if she should be banned or not. She isn’t as strong as a man, but she is stronger than most women. Once you add in the weight lifting, she is going to be a lot stronger, but she is a woman.
From a safety issue, I could see banning her, but it is unfair that she was just born different.
Unfortunately, mtf trans women still produce steroids
I’m not talking about trans people, I’m talking about intersex people.
Oh sorry. I have a really bad habit about that.
On intersex people, imo it needs to be on a case by case basis, and I do not have the expertise to weigh in on it.
That said, IMHO, it should fairly strict. The mens side should remain open to all. The women’s side should be for women only, since other wise they’d lose everytime.
…Except that they don’t. It depends on the sport. Danica Patrick out-competed men in drag racing. Shooting sports with stationary targets tend to have almost complete gender parity. On the other hand, no men at all are competing in artistic swimming, despite the fact that they are permitted to. And there’s not any kind of straight line between testosterone and performance; yeah, lots and lots of testosterone is good for bulking up, but it’s not so great for ultramarathon runners.
For boxing specifically, men win.
Again: it’s not that cut and dried. In the same weight classes, men and women are much more competitive. When you look at weight classes for women versus the weight classes for men, you see much broader range of weights for men, e.g., 51-57kg for men, and 50-54kg for women. My bet is that, all training being equal, you’d probably see very little variation between men and women for a 50kg boxer. (But fewer women take up boxing in the first place, and they get into boxing later in life. So it’s difficult to compare.)
There are def. differences, but those differences get really hard to nail down and assign definitively to one gender or another when you’re looking at a micro level. Neurobiology isn’t a simple, middle-school level subject.
