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Cake day: April 17th, 2019

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  • Dessalines@lemmy.mltoComics@lemmy.ml•Americans in a nutshell
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    19 days ago

    nationalized industry under a capitalist mode of production just turns the state into a collective capitalist

    Besides the fact that Engels saw “state capitalism” as he defined it as a positive, final stage of capitalism (he was wrong on that since the transition to socialism has always occurred in feudal countries, not in the core countries where capitalism is strongest, but that discussion is better suited to lemmygrad or hexbear), as Lenin and later socialist leaders noted, state capitalism has different potential definitions:

    “For socialism is merely the next step forward from state-capitalist monopoly. Or, in other words, socialism is merely state-capitalist monopoly which is made to serve the interests of the whole people and has to that extent ceased to be capitalist monopoly”

    • Marx

    “The state capitalism, which is one of the principal aspects of the New Economic Policy, is, under Soviet power, a form of capitalism that is deliberately permitted and restricted by the working class. Our state capitalism differs essentially from the state capitalism in countries that have bourgeois governments in that the state with us is represented not by the bourgeoisie, but by the proletariat, who has succeeded in winning the full confidence of the peasantry.“

    • Lenin

    None of these socialist thinkers meant the term to be used in the ultraleft definition you’re using, as a tool to demonize actually exist socialist states and decry them as “not socialist enough”.

    China’s economy still runs on wage labor, commodity production, capital accumulation,

    Good, developing the productive forces, building a thriving socialist market economy and putting that capital to use to serve the whole people, is the goal of every current socialist state.

    massive billionaire class extracting surplus value

    As I linked below, the PRC is a mixed economy, where the publicly owned and planned sector predominates, and there is also a restricted private / capitalist sector. I don’t expect an ultraleft to be familiar with the “bargain” strategy, but having a capitalist sector within an overall planned economy, has resulted in the export of tech and production to China, with it becoming an economic powerhouse and primary trading partner for most of the world, and real wages rising 4x in the past 30 years alone. The limited and short term wage exploitation in the private sector (in reality, its a small expense to buy off private capital and keep them operating within the socialist legal framework), has under a socialist government resulted in those incredible economic gains, whereas the capitalist 3rd world is still writhing in poverty, and completely at the mercy of western finance capital.

    Plus, you can’t claim the working class controls the state when independent unions are banned, strikes are suppressed,

    False. The PRC even supports more strikes than nearly any other country, which clearly irks the western finance rag I linked. Also, people don’t have much reason to strike because of the people’s congresses in nearly every workplace, and the wages rising so much recently. They of course don’t allow US-sponsored strikes and slowdowns, which do happen occasionally.

    private CEOs literally sit in the national legislature

    A small number of them do, which of course is a good thing if you want to make sure that they’re working towards the betterment of the country, and to avoid them organizing an opposition. Regardless, they do not control the state, and capital has no enshrined rights, especially to organize.

    If you’re going to demonize socialist countries in the future, at least post sources for your claims.


  • I argue that class is inevitable under any form of administrative government. the goal is to tie ultimate power to the will of the people.

    Then you’re disagreeing with the way all Marxists and even liberal academics define class: which is relation to production, and you’re also completely wrong that power is divorced from production, or surplus value.

    The differerence between capitalist and socialist countries is the control over this surplus. US capitalists control production, the surplus, and have a puppet government enact their interests against those of its workers. Its members unilaterally decide how to use that surplus.

    The PRC has the major key industries nationalized, and in that sector surplus can only be controlled by democratic decision-making, not the whims of private capital. No member of the NPC can unilaterally decide how to use that surplus in the same way a private capitalist in the US can.

    A limited, restricted private sector of capitalists also exists, but they do not stand above political power, have no enshrined rights, and must follow the dictates of the worker state.





  • One of the main problems, is that US liberals have no historical memory of the scale of atrocities committed by their party. Once they learn that history, they unavoidably have to come to terms with the truth that the US is a one-party state, with the democrats playing the controlled opposition wing, and the electoral contest is nothing more than theatre, or a rigged game at a casino where the house always wins.

    Even just a cursory glance over the history of some of their recent leaders, like Obama, Biden, or Harris should be enough.