I’ll kick this off. It’s been 12 games of this lineup, a lineup which (regardless of whether it’s Bagley or Duren starting at center):

 

  • Has far too little shooting. Modern NBA offenses are built around generating open threes and converting them at a good percentage, neither of which this lineup can do. It has not a single reliable, high-volume shooter at all, let alone one who can reliably get open off the ball. The lineup persistently runs with at least two non-shooters. Killian can barely be considered a shooter, if at all; he’s not reliable and he passes up shots. Stewart is the most reliable but the least able to get open and has a propensity to pass up shots. Modern NBA offenses avoid non-shooting perimeter players like the plague. This lineup fields three of them, or four if you count the currently-struggling Cade.

  • Has far too little spacing. This is not merely a symptom of the lack of shooting; it’s also a function of the general lack of mobility. This lineup has no hope of wrongfooting defenses by beating defenders off the ball. Stewart is the only one who can reliably shoot, but even he is a questionable spacer; he’s far too slow to beat a defender, and so only gets open if he’s left open by the defense.

  • Has far too little athleticism. This relates to the previous point. Cade isn’t fast, though that’s less of an issue when he’s on the ball so much. Killian is slow. Stewart is very slow by the standards of his position. Ausar is quick on cuts, but getting open on the perimeter is, for obvious reasons, not of great value to him. This lineup has an extremely limited ability to get open or to create holes in defenses.

  • Has far too little creation. Only Cade applies. The spacing is one reason why he’s getting swarmed. The poor off-ball movement is another. This is a third, and not a minor one.

  • Has no hope of keeping up on offense against respectable opponents. This is key. The combination of the above irredeemably gimps the offense in the starting lineup. This is the most common lineup the Pistons play.

  • Has similar weaknesses no matter if Duren is in the lineup or not. Duren provides more passing, but he, too, cannot shoot.

  • Was unnecessary from game one, regardless of injuries. Even if one considers Ivey’s current situation to be merited, Burks could have started on opening night. Sasser could’ve started with Burks out. Burks could start now. Stewart could start at center instead of Bagley to provide proper spacing. The lineup persists.

  • Should never have seen the light of day in today’s NBA at all, let alone for 12 games. This is a lineup that utterly disregards the necessities of the modern NBA and lacks anything like the assets to have any hope of coming anywhere near to breaking even in today’s NBA, let alone winning its minutes.

  • Was virtually guaranteed to fail on offense, at the very least.

  • Has been an unequivocal failure from minute one of the season.

 

Monty’s no fool. He no doubt knows all of the above. So what’s the point of this lineup? What benefit could it be providing at this stage? If it’s meant to prove some point, then when is enough enough? What sort of “culture” will be built by actively reducing the team’s chances of winning over an extended period?

 

One thing is for sure: the claim that the Pistons would be prioritizing winning this season wasn’t true. This lineup is proof positive enough of that. It’s actively lowering the team’s capacity to win, not to mention putting key players in position to struggle rather than succeed.

 

What do you think? When will we see meaningful changes in the starting lineup? Why haven’t they been made already? Why was this starting lineup conceived of in the first place?

 

Edit: To those of you who have already downvoted this thread, consider participating in the discussion rather than anonymously trying to bury it.

  • Anxious-Passenger-54BEnglish
    1·
    1 year ago

    The most telling thing to me about our offense is the lack of drives. I looked at drives per game and to make it a little less to sift through, just looked at the central division. Cade leads the division in drives per game but as we’ve all seen, they are not the most effective drives since he’s often walled off by 3 or even 4 help defenders. After that our next highest is killian with 6.8. That is such a steep drop off. Every other team have either multiple guys in double digits or Indiana for example have 5 players with more drives than our 2nd highest. Part of this as mentioned has to be due to lack of spacing. I have to believe that we would be able to have more drives from Ausar for example if the floor was more spaced out as he is good at driving on one defender once getting downhill but there is rarely only one defender near the paint. Second, is the lack of players who are explosive enough to just get by their guy. Ivey is probably the only player who can consistently get by defenders without a screen due to his speed, threat of a shot, and competent enough handle. This shows with his driving numbers being close to killians with 10 fewer minutes. As mentioned in the post, a lot of our shooters don’t get open themselves and when that’s the case, the way to get them open is to collapse the defense which is impossible to do with how our lineups are currently constructed. I know a frequent argument for Hayes has been his defense, which is fine, it has its moments that shine. Others have also mentioned his lack of mistakes is needed next to Cade who is, to put it kindly, a little prone to making mistakes. The problem though is that it compounds the lack of quickness on the floor. I would like to see what it looks like with just ivey in for hayes, as I love our front court (I’ve firmly planted my flag as stew being a competent starting 4), but I also would understand if we need to further adjust that lineup to having someone who can both space and create such as bogey when healthy or can’t believe I’m saying this but Knox right now(?).