Notice: This post is made out of frustration and you can leave your thoughts and anger here too.
I am 25, female, german and a freelance photographer. Since a year I am trying to get into concert photograpy with pay. The first 10 concerts I did of course for free to build my portfolio but now I reached the point where I want to get real jobs and some respect for my work.
But as many fellows know it is a hard world out there and you have to give 200% effort to get 2% chance on landing a job. So one of my strategies were writing pm‘s to concert photographers on instagram with the question if they could be so kind and spill the tea about experiences in the business.
Guess what? The answers were vague and short or you would get ignored. Further it would stop at telling the simple thing of which lens they used. I get it that everyone has their own style and tries to protect it but you can nit be replaced that quickly by just helping one out with some info.
Can someone tell me about similar experiences? Is there someone who is not afraid of giving informations about this photography sector? I would really like to not feel alone anymore with this behavior.
Thanks guys!
Summary: Freelance photographer trying to get into concert sector but struggles to get paid jobs. Succesfull photographers won‘t have a conversation about their experiences. Hence their the biggest gatekeepers in my opinion!!
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Not a pro, so please don’t come after me. My guess is that they get tons of requests for advice/help from people trying to go pro, ranging from absolute beginners with zero experience who think photography is just pushing a button, to actual professionals trying to get into other branches.
They probably worked hard too, to get to where they are now and don’t own any random stranger on the internet their professional time or advice.
The fact that they even replied to you, is a courtesy.
Sounds like you’re trying to short cut years of networking, experience, hard work and being put off a lot of times and have that bundled into an Instagram DM from a stranger. Remember that a well paid photographer is 80% marketing and networking
You worked free, you took bread out of their mouths nd you want them to train you. I think you have a problem understanding what business is about, I don’t want to advertise for other photographers on my website, I sure as hell am not going to teach them how to market, and become my competition.
I also wouldn’t expect them to hand over all their trade secrets.
The answers were vague and short or you would get ignored. Further it would stop at telling the simple thing of which lens they used.
I mean, yes there are gatekeepers, but from my experience this is less about gatekeeping and more about availability/motivation to answer questions. I often get PMs asking for feedback, advice, etc, and I try my best to be helpful, but like most people I have a lot on my plate and it takes actual effort to answer in a constructive and helpful way. You’re asking people to give you their time which has value for nothing in return. Like you don’t want to give your time for free shooting concerts, it’s very feasible that these photographers also don’t want to give their time and effort for free.
Succesfull photographers won‘t have a conversation about their experiences. Hence their the biggest gatekeepers in my opinion!!
I see it more as a cost vs benefit for them. What are they getting out of the conversation? Is it even a conversation, or shooting a bunch of questions at them? At that point, you’re asking someone to mentor or teach you without any value for them in return.
My advice? Find someone who is open to taking on an assistant or mentee. Learn from them while also helping them. There’s value in that for both of you. Just hitting someone up in their PMs with a bunch of questions is not really respectful of their time and the time it took them to acquire the knowledge you’re asking them to just feed you.
Thanks for sharing your opinion!
I do see benefits from looking for a photographer to assist them. But I don‘t think its realistic when it come to concert photography. Like what is there to assist or help? I would probably stnad in the way.
About the disrespect aspect: I dont think its disrespectfull of asking questions. Yes, you can just ignore them or answer them. Why does everthing need to be revalued these days? What about just helping someone? We all know how hard the beginning is and then when we get our flow we become these kind of people ourselfs?
That cant be it.
But I don‘t think its realistic when it come to concert photography. Like what is there to assist or help? I would probably stnad in the way.
It could be as simple as shadowing a show and then helping with the logistical stuff outside the concert itself. That would be up to the mentor, etc. You could also potentially assist a photographer in a different genre in the events space in order to learn and then transfer those skills to your own concert work.
About the disrespect aspect: I dont think its disrespectfull of asking questions.
It’s not disrespectful to ask. It’s disrespectful to label someone as a gatekeeper when they are unable or unwilling to give you what you were expecting, especially if they never set that expectation themself.
Why does everthing need to be revalued these days?
I’m not sure what you mean by “revalued.” Do you mean how everything needs to have monetary value? Because I absolutely don’t believe in that. In fact, the commercialization of hobbies is something I actively speak out against. That said, if you’re asking someone to do some work for you (ie: teaching, which is work), they have the right to want something of value in return.
What about just helping someone? We all know how hard the beginning is and then when we get our flow we become these kind of people ourselfs?
You’re currently speaking to someone who runs multiple educational photography communities for free. I spend at least 20 hours a week supporting new photographers, for no pay. I believe in helping new photographers. That said, I also do it because I enjoy it and get value out of it in my own way. That isn’t the case for everyone. Not everyone should be expected to teach (which is a skill in its own right), nor should they be labeled a gatekeeper because of that.
The main thing here is expectations. You can reach out and ask, but don’t feel slighted when you get basic responses in return. Not everyone is equipped to impart their knowledge, or maybe just don’t want to. That doesn’t make them a gatekeeper.
There are people out there willing and excited to help newcomers. You just have to find them. I know in my communities we have some concert photographers. You’re welcomed to join and have some willing brains to pick. Let me know if that interests you and I’ll share the link to our discord where we are most active.
Photographers aren’t nice on social media. People in general aren’t really nice on social media. It’s really off putting I understand your frustrations all too well. My biggest tip would be to avoid Reddit and instagram as resources and maybe go to a concert and make small talk with the photographer. I’ve only had one unpleasant interaction with a concert photographer in person. Maybe try to find local photography groups. It’s really overwhelming being new to professional photography and having nowhere to start and having in person resources is always the best way to go.
It’s not quite clear if this is ranting or question. Please make it little more clear about it.
If it is question, what is your main focus here? Getting income through concert photography? Getting income through any photography? Getting access to bigger concert despite no income? The know-how of how to be a good concert photographer? How to make other photographer answer you in more personal level? Would be great if you can rephrase the question so it can be a bit more clear.
It’s reddit here. If you rant, you will hear the rant back.
It’s hard to see the whole picture from your description but this is the way I see:
10 concert is not much. Did you make portfolio as a concert photographer and is it good quality and unique enough to the level that the host would specifically hire you for that specific look?
Don’t ask what lens other pro use. They usually use whatever that gets the job done. Focusing on gear gives the amateur vibe and they will take you as a beginner. You should know your tool by heart and you should know what parameters of lens make what features. On top of it, most of characteristics are added in post process. Also, you can always rent lenses for few days from camera shops if you are curious of some lens.
Time is money. I don’t think it’s weird that pro photographers gave half baked answers.
Agree
There might be a retired concert photographer out there who could be your mentor. Sounds like a long shot but you never know how the stars could align to your favour.
Shortly after I got serious with my hobby as a landscape photographer, I happened to buy some used gear from someone who turned out to be a retired arts professor and professional photographer. He was passionate about teaching and didn’t mind taking me under his wings. We met for coffee and donuts over several months. He was generous in sharing tips and tricks of the trade, including where to find the best but obscure scenic spots in our part of the country.