He is not playing at an MVP level.
Jeez. 3 posts ago is herbert needs to be held accountable for chargers failures and here it’s Josh Allen is playing at an mvp level but the bills are wasting it?
Yahoo’s stuff has gotten worse over the years
It’s not been an MVP level season but I get what you are saying.
If he had like 3-4 less turnovers and a couple more wins, he’d likely be frontrunner for MVP. He’s on pace for 4,553 passing yards, 485 rushing yards, 34 passing TDs, and 13 rushing TDs.
So all in all, he could end up with 5,000 total yards and 47 total TDs - but he also has 13 INTs and is a league leader in INTs.
It’s crazy to think he’s currently leading in total TDs (and passing TDs), 2nd in total yards (he’s behind Howell by 5 yards), but he’s also leading in INTs which is killing his MVP chances
Even if he had the same stats he would be #1 if Bills had 3 more wins.
Which they could easily have if the Bills defense didn’t choke away multiple games this year.
He has 13 INTs currently. He has I think 16 total turnovers? So if you continue the “on pace” he would be over 20 turnovers by the end of the season. Has anyone ever won MVP with that many turnovers?
Dak has both those things and isn’t a frontrunner.
He has 33 total TDs thru 12 weeks. That’s MVP level. Only reason we’re not talking about it is cuz he also has 16 TO’s.
Yeah the weird thing about MVP is it’s not the player who is most pivotal to giving the team a chance to win. It’s the QB on the winning team
You aren’t valuable if you choke, if you almost win, if you can drive down the field and throw an endzone pick. As good as Josh Allen is he isn’t more valuable ****this year**** than Strouds been, or Purdys been, or the real MVP front runner Lamars been. Ravens had almost this many wins at the end of the season last year, the Texans went from worst team to “dark horse” and the 49ers look like the greatest team of all time IF Purdy is playing like Purdy plays. Allen shouldn’t even be in the conversation, neither should Mahomes. I don’t give a fuck how many 12 year olds buy their jersey or how good they were last year, and neither will the voters when they both finally fall off in the odds
Yeah, I mean if that was what MVP was really about, then CJ Stroud would be the MVP and it wouldn’t even be close.
16 TO’s in 12 games is really really bad
Eh. You can take off 2 of them as arm punts on third and long, 1 as a pick on a hail mary throw, and like 4-5 more as absolutely catchable balls that a receiver just dropped/tipped that ended up turning into an INT
its 1.33 TOs per game; Hurts and Tua both have 14 in 11 (1.27 per game)
Only reason we’re not talking about it is because the Bills are 6-6. If you watch those 16 turnovers, a lot of them are really not on Allen, come on arm punts, or involve defenders making incredible plays. He has one of the lowest turnover-worthy-play rates in the NFL
Seems like Josh Allen is wasting an MVP-level season with all those turnovers
Jameis?
it has been a mvp season but you probably just havent watched enough football
It has been
I mean yeah it has. Somehow we’re still managing to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory anyways.
He had an OC so bad that he got fired, and has a head coach who seems to seek ways to lose, yet he’s still putting up gaudy numbers and scoring go ahead drives with <2min left anyways.
It is an MVP level season lol. We are so desensitized to Josh Allen putting up MVP cam numbers lmao.
It literally is. He leads the league in EPA
I don’t watch enough Bills games to know, but wasn’t the narrative that he was way too turnover prone a week ago?
Yes. Media got to talk about something.
He’s had two awful turnover filled games (that were tied or leading late in the game anyway) and had some bad luck with tipped passes but other than that he’s been lights out.
Orlovsky had some good analysis on this a week or two ago.
my first reaction was “mvp level?!” He just throws it deep and hopes for the best when things dont work out. Hes singelhandedly cost them games with his overaggressive play style. He has moments when he looks great but he balances it out with just as bad plays.
If you actually think that you just know nothing about football.
I think hes tied as a league interception leader right now. Hes a great qb but hes not having an mvp level season. I dont think theres any fair argument for that.
Occasional MVP for opposing defenses
The NFL is both the best and worst sport for sports talk by a mile. Opinions on the entire careers of players change by the week. Brock Purdy went from star to bust to star within about a month. Same with the Josh Allen takes, everything from Favre to MVP to bust. Allen’s obviously a great player, but people love to shit on players after a loss or bad performance, to the point that it reads like satire even though it’s not.
He still is but so is the “front runner” who really shouldn’t be higher than 5th in the MVP conversation behind 3 other QBs and 2 position players.
That’s the narrative despite throwing the 6th least amount of turnover worthy passes according to PFF. (That was before the eagles game, so it likely changed.)
Narratives are dumb and are driven by team results and short term thinking more than anything. Allen has one bad game, he’s trash. One great game, he’s God.
Smartest thing to do is look at his overall body of work and realize that he’s actually a damn good QB who consistently gives his team 5000+ yards and 40+ TDs of total offense a year (on track to roughly match those numbers for a 4th straight year, I say roughly because in 2020 he was 35 yards short of 5,000.) Despite mostly having had bad O-lines and limited run games (although I think they’ve been better this year) and a lot of inconsistency past his #1 receiver.
He definitely has flaws. He will never be Aaron Rodgers in terms of taking care of the ball and avoiding turnovers. His career INT% is 2.4, which is roughly comparable to Drew Brees, Tua Tagovailoa, Joe Flacco, Matt Stafford, Ryan Tannehill, Ben Roethlisberger, and Andrew Luck. From 2019-2021 it was 2.0%, which is better than Jalen Hurts’ and Lamar Jackson’s career averages and in line with Joe Burrow. The last two years, with insanely injured defenses adding even more pressure for him to be everything on top of being the Bills’ pass game AND run game, those percentages have gone up. Take all that for what you will.
It’s unfortunate that we can’t run more experiments in the NFL. It would be fun to see what Josh Allen’s or Lamar Jackson’s numbers might be if they played for Andy Reid or Doug Pederson or had two elite targets like Joe Burrow and Tua do. It would be fun to see what Herbert could be doing if he wasn’t held back by Staley’s coaching and a terrible defense. It would be fun to see what sort of numbers Burrow could have by now if he could stay healthy. I feel like there are too many contextual factors that cause year to year swings in players’ performances for Reddit/Twitter/bloggers to always jump to such definitive conclusions on a player being either elite or trash.
He’s had a better TD:Int ratio than Mahomes for most of the season. He was never the issue other than week 1, even when we we had a JV offensive coordinator he was the only reason things worked at all.
He’s always gonna be a guy who throws a decent number of picks cuz he trusts his elite arm to make throws into the tightest windows. Sometimes you win, sometimes you get burned, but either way that capability adds a pretty big advantage to the offense.
Allen has two more turnovers than mahones and hurts but hasn’t been on bye yet (so has one more game played). He also has the most TDs.
Like anything in sports news the most dramatic take become the official narrative.
Allen is 29th in the league for PFF turnover worthy plays. He’s had a few bad picks, but way more bad luck.
I saw somewhere that 2 of his picks even resulted in positive EPA…so there’s also that.
There are at least 3 games where their defense just couldnt make a stop in late 4th quarter and lost because of that
Compare his numbers to the current MVP favourite.
Allen has 2 more than Jalen Hurts, with one more game played this season. Let’s see how many the MVP favorite gets this week.
His INT are up and his fumbles are way down compared to the last couple of years.
I think that was 2 weeks ago. And 2 weeks before that he was mvp caliber again lol. You really don’t see nearly as much overreaction as in other sports. Lebron’s team got cooked by almost 50 last night and there’s no “he’s washed” talk at all. Wonder why that is? Maybe becasue they play so many more games.
He’s got a total of 2 more turnovers than Tua and hurts, other mvp candidates and has a lower turnover %per touch and lower turnover worthy play rate. It’s a narrative but a lazy one.
Guys going to end up with over 5,000 yards total offense and close to or exceeding 50 TDs. While being too 5 in completion % and #1 in EPA.
In 4 of our 6 losses he lead the team down to take the lead on his last drive only For the D to squander.
If the D holds up on 2 of those games he would be the betting favorite for MVP, by far right now.
Been the narrative since he entered the league. Dude loves turning the ball over. Usually, winning teams don’t do that. Hence their record.
There is no illusion, Josh Allen is losing these games for the Bills.
It’s legit the difference between people who value analytics and really dive into the game versus people who just follow narratives and listen to talking heads. The narrative says turnovers make him an overrated qb because it’s an easy lazy argument to make in 2 sentences. People who actually are understanding what they are watching, who I respect, say otherwise.
That was the narrative yes (and randomly is again every few weeks) but not the reality
Yeah, it’s definitely not an MVP season lol
Among people who Josh and us that is the narrative but it requires you to forget literally every other statistics exists. In context the primary driver is volume, and he is very efficient with his volume.
He has around the same turnovers as the other top QBs other than Purdy and Herbert.
Not really paid attention to him, but dude could not be stopped against us. Ran all over our top run defense.
And this is part of the problem, Allen has games like he has against us and then his front office is like “We don’t need a running game if Allen can do that”
It is the weirdest shit
It’s clear he needs a running game. Both times of Allen’s peaks (2021 and right now), the OC incorporates a healthy serving of run game. It’s good to have Joe Brady right now.
I get the sentiment, but to be fair, when looking at statistical rankings, rushing defense focuses primarily on actual rushing not QB scrambling. Josh Allen is obviously an outlier in the league with his mobility at the QB position and having a highly rated rushing defense doesn’t really apply to stopping a QB from running during designed pass plays.
Only the zebras could stop the Bills this week.
Stopped him in OT when it mattered to be fair
Some podcast I listened to yesterday mentioned the Bills RBs had like 20 carries for 45 yards before they actually started picking up yards in the 4th quarter or something.
Can yall just stop drafting elite DL pls?
Run defense is kinda irrelevant when it’s a QB tucking it. Don’t think there were many designed runs
Doesn’t he have 8 straight games or something with a turnover?
You’re pretending like you don’t know, but you’re the #1 Allen hater that always shows up on these threads. I would bet money you have the exact count carved into your floorboard.
I actually wasn’t certain but I’m pretty confident that is accurate now based on your response.
Sorry. I don’t memorize Allen stats. I’m more concerned about Indys playoff race.
Alero is the worst. At least he’s not harping on the new stadium deal 🙄
Bills wasting Josh Allen with their shitty prevent defense and cowardly coaching decisions? In other news, the sky is blue.
His TD pass to Diggs the other day was insane
The number of 3rd and longs where he made something happen was insane, too.
It was interesting, they would run the ball on first and second but when they actually tried a pass on first the eagles were ready for it.
I’ve been conditioned to feel better about 3rd & 20 than 3rd & 8
They are awarding MVPs for flopping and just generally being a big ol’ crybaby now?
Worked for James Harden. Allen is just following his lead.
Bills have had the weirdest fucking season
I don’t know if leading the league in interceptions should be considered MVP-level.
Almost as if there are other stats people take into account when analyzing a QB.
16 turnovers on the season. In what world is this an MVP caliber season?
The same one with Hurts as the leader in MVP with two less turnovers, less tds lower completion percentage and a lower passer rating. No Qbs deserve MVP this year but it will go to the one on the team with the best record
Ding ding ding. MVP odds go: (1) QB having an amazing year, (2) QB having an above-average year on a great team, (3) QB. I’ll eat my hat the day a non-QB wins MVP (without the league creating a new QB-only award).
Allen- 16 TOs, 69.1% completion, 95.8 rating
Hurts- 14 TOs, 67.6% completion, 94.9 rating
they’re pretty comparable stat-wise. but one of them has 4 more wins
Who’s your mvp front runner rn?
Theyre wasting his entire career at this point.
Someone made a depressing comparison that these allen bills are like the early rodgers era packers…but without the 1 ring.
And its pretty spot on. The bills prob had 2 legit sb winning teams in 20 and 21. Moreso 21 when they had the Chiefs beat, would’ve then hosted the bengals, then play the rams. Still a tough road but that was a prime chance. Then theres just a little setback after a team gets that close (or in the packers case wins it all and blew a chance or two to get a 2nd.) And it feels like a wasted window of opportunity for those Bills and Packers.
Now the bills are in that spot where they have a real gap/down year and gotta open up the next realistic window. Lets hope they are still similar to the Packers in that case where that happened pretty quickly. They will. Its just fucking nerve racking waiting for it. The pressure is ramped up super high for the Bills.
Can we just be normal about Josh Allen for once. He’s having a good season and he’s turned over the ball more than he should. It’s okay, he’s not having an mvp season and we’re still lucky to have him. Everything is so hyperbolic in every direction the way people talk about him.
This is what Brett Favre apologists would sound like 2000-2008
he’s not having an mvp season
If his record was better he’s probably be in the lead.
He is really good but listening to romo the other night you’d have thought it was the second coming of Christ.
If the bills had a couple bounces go their way in those games Josh is 100% having an MVP season
hes definitely having a mvp season. if you look at stats and see turnover worthy plays or how his turnovers are less worse than tua’s. hes definitely having a mvp season. cmon now
Sadly the reasonable takes get no clicks. You have to pick outrage for one side or the other and roll with it
49ers fans get so up in arms when a singular talking head says Brock purdy is a bottom 32 QB
The hot takes are only as stupid as the people they’re catered to.
Centrism is not the “reasonable take”. Josh Allen is objectively playing at an MVP level
This whole weird thing with some quarterbacks where we have to be hyperbolic about their performance is crazy to me. Why can’t we just say he’s doing good or bad rather than making it sound like we need to cut him tomorrow or enshrine him in the hall of fame yesterday
Why is it hyperbolic?
On a per game basis Allen and Hurts are basically tied in TDs and TOs and Hurts’ is the literal favorite.
That’s all the article is pointing out.
Wow. I’ve seen rational reactions before but never in the context of NFL football!
At this point, that’s just Josh Allen. He’s really good at what he does but his play style is also going to generate a lot of turnovers. Most of the time, the good outweighs the bad so he’s going to keep doing it
Gotta remember these players have expiration dates brudda -
Allen has made so many touchdowns either from passes, running, and just overall good awareness when it comes to making sure the drive stays alive.
Its literally a combo of bad luck + bad coaching + quite frankly terribly placed penalties that is actually ruining the teams chances.
I’ve watched basically every game so far and its literally bad luck + inability to find people that can catch + inability to keep defense healthy + coaches making bad calls.
It’ll never end, even if he wins one, it’ll be when is the next one.
It’s not hyperbolic to say he’s playing like an MVP when he is
Should probably just burn it all down and trade Josh to NE and rebuild. Definitely the best option.