I didn’t vote for Trump in 2016. I didn’t vote.
In 2020 I voted for Trump because knew Biden would be bad. He has done better than I expected but the inflation is killing me and the focus on the wrong thing isn’t helping.
Early on I was a De Santis fan but my interest has waned as he has taken hard stances on things that need compromise.
Did you really just tell a veteran he didn’t notice being deployed? lol.
No. The president is not. Once again that’s a state issue. The federal government is in charge of trying to stop the flow, monitoring pharmacies, etc. they’re not in charge of addiction or treatment.
None of them were handle by the government. They just burned out naturally and Zika is still around. Obama did nothing to stop the outbreak. They just ran their natural course.
I thought they are rioting over Floyd. Now you are saying it was an armed insurrection against Trump ?
Did you just tell a Federal public health researcher that public health isn’t a Federal responsibility? lol
Yes, but again, Trump didn’t succeed at these things either. Fentanyl from China flowed over the border and caused an ongoing crisis. Trafficking of drugs is a Federal, not state, crime. Trump’s DoJ should have had it in hand but under Trump, he had them spending more time on a fruitless wild goose chase for “corruption” in Mueller’s investigation instead of issues that actually affected Americans. Trump was incompetent.
They were all handled by the government.
There was no “Zika pandemic.” There also was no swine flu pandemic, SARS-1 pandemic, nor MERS pandemics in the United States. Oh, were those not the ones you were thinking of? Well, yes, that’s my point - you don’t remember them because they were objectively non-issues. They didn’t “burn out naturally”, they were actively and successfully stopped by rapid, effective public health action. I’m an expert in this field, remember?
If you think that’s true. Cite the law that gives the federal authority to take control form the states. I’d like to see the law citation as you’re the first person to make that claim.
And neither did Carter, Reagan, bush, Clinton, etc.
Can you cite the law that once again overrules the states? I’ve never seen nor heard that.
Sure, show me the vaccines.
You claim to be an expert but keep making claims that are false. I’ll see if you can cite these imaginary laws you claim.
USC 42 § 243
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3371787/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7172901/
https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/public/vaccination_qa_pub.htm
Any other dumbshit questions?
If they’re “false” how are you so completely failing to refute them?
Let’s keep it civil at the least. Because I don’t think most people could cite the law that gives the federal government authority to take control from the states. Don’t use your knowledge to browbeat people.
Right, but I did.
Exactly. And I’m asking you not to criticize someone for being ignorant that such a law exists and can’t cite it. That’s all.
Otherwise, keep on keepin’ on.
That wasn’t the criticism that I made. The “dumbass question” was “show me vaccines for infectious diseases that aren’t COVID-19.” But there are many such, and nearly everyone has received several from time to time. The flu vaccine, even!
No where in that law is authority taken away from the state’s. Where does that law give federal government authority to take control from the states?
I didn’t say that it does. What it does is grant overriding authority to the Secretary take whatever actions are in the interests of public health under the condition that there’s a public health emergency. States retain their authority but the Federal government has superseding authority because it’s the Federal government.
It’s in the exact part you quoted - “the Secretary may take such actions to implement” a plan of control of any disease or condition, or to end any public health emergency or problem.
No where in the law is the secretary granted authority to take whatever actions are in the interest of public health. There are very specific limits in that law.
You forgot the 2nd half which limits those plans and actions to personal, equipment, and medical supplies under the jurisdiction of the secretary. State hospitals, private hospitals, and their employees do not fall under the jurisdiction of the secretary of HHS.
It feels like you’re missing a pretty important predicate, and as a result you’re totally misrepresenting what I just said. Go back and read it again - a public health emergency is a particular thing and justifies more legal authority than is normally allowed.
Well, yes. The Secretary can tell people what to do and the Secretary can access necessary resources. That’s more or less totally comprehensive of the scope of government power - distribute things and give orders. Were it possible to wave a magic wand and have disease disappear, that power would be enumerated for the Secretary during a public health emergency too.
The text of the law you quoted brings them under the authority of HHS in a state of public health emergency.
Done and done.
There is nothing in that law that gives federal authority to take control from the states.
The law you cited says HHS secretary can tell HHS employees what to do, and access HHS resources. The law does not give the HHS secretary the authority to confiscate or redistribute private or state owned resources nor allow the HHS secretary control over private or state employees.
Could you provide the text where it says that?
It doesn’t. If you read down further, you will see the law is about ports of entry.
The states run their one pandemic show. It’s why we have all the different rules. In parts of Missouri no masks were required. In other areas masks were required. Ironically, the areas without masks did better than those with masks.
Chicago required masks when you were outside. Oregon the same, most other states did not.
I think people didn’t see COVID as a threat like the Democrats wanted them to see it. That is why people pushed back.
Had it been an Ebola outbreak on the same scale, I think people would have tried to be compliant.
When you look at the mortality rate of COVID, it was tiny. If you caught it, the chances of you dying were very slim unless you were old or had other medical issues.
Personally, I ignored everything Faucci said and stuck with my training. I didn’t catch COVID until last year; it was a minor case.
I suspect cashfrog just googled laws defining the role of hhs and either didn’t read it or think anyone would verify what he posted.
If you look at the mortality rate once we stopped putting people on ventilators it went up too. So many knee jerk poor decisions were made out of fear. I’m convinced the ventilator shortage saved so many lives as “the science” started realizing they hurt the outcome and stopped using them.
I could talk this topic for days since I was in the middle of it. One big issue was blue states screaming for more aid that they didn’t need. Centers were setup to handle overflow and for the most part weren’t needed and weren’t used. So we diverted money and resources away from other things to do this when it wasn’t even needed.
One of my favorite stories was in Italy. They used bubble helmets and ED medication as treatment. Just weird to imagine people in bed with helmets on and erections. The ED medicine made sense. Just a weird image.
Faucci pushed fear and not good decisions. He did some of our briefings and nobody agreed with him but we have to be quiet. The guy was clearly intoxicated by his power.
I’m not opposed to wearing mask. I’m opposed to pretending they’ll make a difference. Cloth, surgical mask have almost zero benefit. N95 have some benefit but they’re not magical. I encourage people to wear them because it’s better than nothing but all the lies that it’ll end the pandemic or save grandma were fear mongering which I feel id disgusting.
Yeah I don’t think he realized it’s pretty common knowledge the states run pandemics and the federal government plays a supporting role. I think it’s a crap model but in Covid I think it saved lives. We’d still be in lockdown if fauci could have forced it.
SARS and mers were never an issue. As you are aware mers was never even used in the Middle East since it vanished before it could be trialed. My trip was cancelled for that reason. There was nothing to test.
Did you actually read the law? It states exactly what I said.
The feds provide assistance. They do not control it. That’s done at a state level. It’s why each state had different rules and the feds couldn’t do anything about it. They could only out rules on trains/planes and federal facilities.
It’s why Florida had lax rules and New York had strict rules.
It’s why I wa recalled since this is what I did for twenty years in the army as a medical officer.
Did you? It empowers the Federal government to take steps to control outbreaks of infectious disease, and to take other measures supportive of public health, and delegates these powers to the particular Federal agencies that have this responsibility including the Public Health Service.
Yes, that’s my point. That’s what successful interdiction of infectious disease looks like. Prevention is 9/10ths of a cure, remember?
When you worked as a medical officer in the Army were you required to have state involvement to treat a patient? No, right? Was your medical license issued by any US state? Not until you left the Army, right?
The Federal government has its own public health authority, and that authority had been successfully used by previous Presidents to prevent infectious pandemics. Trump failed to follow suit because he was a totally incompetent executive, which I’ve proved and you no longer even attempt to dispute.
It allows them to advise the states. That isn’t authority over a pandemic. That isn’t even close. If you worked in the field you’d know the states have the authority. The Feds can’t force action on states. That’s why Trump never did.
Yes my medical license was issued by a state. All medical personal in the army have to have a state license. It just doesn’t have to be from the state they are in. The federal government doesn’t issue medical licenses.
Mers died out in its own. The flu expanded and died out natural. It’s what they do.
I was going to deploy for the Mers vaccine and then it was all cancelled because it went away.
I think you are trying to give the federal government authority they don’t have. They just don’t.
Now maybe we will agree on this. I think the federal government should have the authority to set a standard. 50 states and x number of territories doing their own thing is stupid when people can easily cross the border. Back in the day I lived less than from a mile from another state. If I walked a block I was in another state. Hypothetically they could have the exact opposite rules. That’s stupid.
I’m all for state rights but once it’s on a pandemic level. The Feds should have authority.
Maybe you know this but the government can force to vaccinate but that’s a slippery slope. During the revolution they use the army to force quarantine. I don’t know it being done since and while I don’t like the idea of it, I do think in a serious pandemic it should be considered. COVID to me wasn’t the test case for it.
You’re either not willing or not able to read the law. Here’s a little primer to assist your comprehension:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7152008/
The Federal government issues medical licenses to doctors in the District of Columbia because the District of Columbia is under Federal jurisdiction.
MERS died out because of rapid, responsive public health action. It wasn’t “on its own”; public health successfully prevented a MERS pandemic.
They just do, though.
Yes, it wasn’t any sort of “test case” except a test for the competence of Donald Trump to respond to a public health crisis, and the result of that test was millions of Americans dead and the loss of the most jobs since the Great Depression. He failed, due to his incompetence. Now you’re arguing an unrelated point about what the appropriate scope of Federal power is, but that’s an unrelated topic; Trump already had these powers, he just was incompetent as using them, as he’s always been incompetent at using power. That’s why he loses so often.
I am familiar with the law. Nothing in the law gives the Feds to force measures on the states. That’s why Biden tried to use osha laws. Maybe we are talking past each other. Do you think the cdc has authority to force masks on the population of a state?
It’s under its own jurisdiction. It’s not a state. I’ve never seen a federal medical license and my girlfriend handled medical licenses for a state. She said she’s never seen a federal medical license. They’re all state issued. That’s how we met is she processed my medical license when I switched states. Though we didn’t date to many years later.
He did not. Biden publicly acknowledged he didn’t have those rights either. An expert In the field would know only the states have those rights.
426 is about ports of entry.
https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/aboutlawsregulationsquarantineisolation.html
measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states
States have police power functions to protect the health, safety, and welfare of persons within their borders. To control the spread of disease within their borders, states have laws to enforce the use of isolation and quarantine.
States have the power within their borders. It’s exactly why Biden didn’t do anything. It’s why he tried to use osha instead which was an obvious no no.
Funny how you have to resort to citing blatant garbage that far exceeds the constitutionally granted powers of the federal government.
Lol, what I cited was the US Code, but I’m sure you’ve never heard of it.
Take it up with the Supreme Court, loser
Hey crash, please don’t call people names. It’s undignified.
I don’t mind the tone policing but it needs to be evenly applied.
It is. I have seen just about everyone called out on it even myself.
Why should I care what they say? They defend government overreach 24/7.
“Everybody’s wrong but me”, wow, very winning argument
No, not everyone. Mainly you and your ilk.