I don’t know what’s going on with the pedophiles, but I hope the same reform.
Is this Pope good?
This pope is less awful than your average cardinal… the catholic church is so fucking conservative that the pope is still extremely conservative when measured against normal people.
I’m not Catholic; I’m an athiest. But I think this pope is a smart, decent person at the top of one of the world’s largest, wealthiest, old, and conservative organizations, with simply legendary levels of internal politics. He’s one of the most liberal popes we’ve ever seen, ever - although, we’re talking about the Catholic church, so “most liberal” only goes so far. But I do think he’s behaved like a kind, inclusive person.
I suspect any lack of real cleansing of corruption and pedophilia has been due to politics and realpolitik in the church, and not because he approves of it.
Even if he could mount an internal inquisition today, he doesn’t seem like a Pope who would.
This is just removing the previous Pope’s cronies. There’s nothing in the article to make me think the Pope is putting in systemic fixes to prevent his own cronies from worming their way into positions from which they can abuse their power.
I would expect any pope or leader to remove those around him who are loyal to someone else.
I wonder if anyone on the planet has enough brains to get that loyalty actually is something bad… everywhere you go it is praised like the literal best thing in the world but actually if we all were completely disloyal and only subscribed to our values, we might actually get somewhere.
I would argue that zero loyalty may be as bad as full loyalty. Also that things are maybe more complicated than subscribing fully to own or other’s values.
Ok, sure. Do you care to give an example? I‘d like to get your perspective.
My perspective is that when everyone is only loyal to their own interests this becomes an extremely divided and trustless environment. Whether it’s social or workplace this is quite toxic to my views
I agree. That is why I said values, not interests.
Interests are something that excites your curiosity or attention. Interests are different from values in that values are your personal principles. Interests get you excited about something and inspire you to take action. You will use your values to guide you as you pursue your interests.
Gave it a quick google to not have to formulate it.
In that case you are just rigid and loyal to some moral values, fundamentally created by people. It is not that easy, and loyalty itself is not a bad thing. How these values and tools are used morally can determine bad person.
Don’t read to much into it. This is a pure publicity stunt to slow down the rate of people leaving the church. But they don’t change at their core. In a few years from now we will find out about all the abuse and dirty businesses going on right now that the Pope and the rest of the Catholic Church is sweeping under the rug as we speak.
They have done similar publicity stunts before. Pope Francis was preaching tolerance and acceptance of homosexuality as far back as 2013. Did things really improve since then?
I see it the same way as Nestle announcing some kind of charity or “commiting” to some kind of sustainability. Yeah sure it does some good but they only do it to hide all the bad stuff.
That’s a very black and white view. There are good comments in this thread, but yours is not among them.
I am a Gen-Xer who was raised Catholic in America. The old-school church values of my childhood in the 1970s were mostly liberal democratic, promoting humility, circumspection, and Golden Rule, love-thy-neighbor attitudes. (Setting aside the entire organization’s liability for the systematic raping of children, that is, which is a lot to ask.)
But with the more extreme politics of groups like Opus Dei, the modern Catholic Church in America, by contrast, has become a right-wing propaganda machine. It promotes a noxious brand of pseudo-religious pomposity and holier-than-thou windbaggery, practiced by preening, empty-headed bigots and jackasses who couldn’t find real spirituality if it bit them in the ass.*
*Just my opinion, but I’m fucking right.
They seem to flip between hard liners and reformers. Francis is from South America where the church is more Christian, for lack of a better word, more concerned with lifting up the poor and nonviolence. They are just an awfully big ship to turn and never going to align with a truly progressive movement. But yes I think both John Paul II and Francis could be considered forces for good working within the system.
In the article I’m reading about a run of the mill corruption trial. If you have more tea you gonna have to spill it.
Living in any era, to some extent, comes with a handful of pressures to uphold ideals considered becoming of that era. For better or worse, that includes spiritual leaders from thousands of years ago who lived in what they considered more fertile norms.
During the early Roman empire, the pope and infamously even Jesus had to watch his step with the officers. Today the EU exists where Rome once stood (if we’re not arguing the EU is in fact Rome’s new manifestation) and the pope again must bend or be broken.
Could you remind us who was the Pope before Jesus?
Pope Sheev Palpatine.
Being charitable I think he means the Pope and Jesus alike had to watch themselves in light of political officers of Rome and such.
Could you remind us who was the Pope before Jesus?
Saint Peter or are you trying to put words in OPs mouth lol?
I knew they were vampires!
