Noob answer? No, because the other party will likely store them in unsafe manner and send it through Facebook Messenger to that Aunt of theirs.
As far as anyone knows WhatsApp uses secure end to end encryption. So only your device and the other person’s device has access to the picture.
The only downside is that WhatsApp is a closed source program, so it isn’t verifiable that the encryption is correctly implemented.
Also, even now, your message could be thousand times encrypted - Google drive backups are not. At least by default. Don’t know anything about iOS, but probably same.
If you’re wanting to be safe I wouldn’t be using WhatsApp at all
I’d add the caveat that a lot of the common options are even worse. There’s at least encryption most of the time, in standard app operation.
Via Element or Signal would be the best answer (or was last I checked), if there’s was anybody else on there.
you actually shouldnt use a phone, or internet either. /s
I feel out of the loop here. What’s so secretive about a photo of a newborn?
Some people just don’t want pictures of their kids all on the internet. It could be seen as borderline paranoia by some people but I think everyone has the right to the level of privacy that they want.
The best form of taking secure photos of your family is to take photos with a dedicated camera with it’s own memory card. Develop the photo into a hard copy and keep the image digitally stored in your own systems and never share it online.
Also CSAM detection algorithms are known to misfire on occasion (it’s hard to impossible to tell apart a picture of a naked child sent for porn purposes and one not send for that) and people want to avoid any false allegations of that if at all possible.
Also the world is a fucked up place
😟
Because the child might not want pictures of themselves on the internet. Its a right to privacy thing, at least here in the EU.
Yeah, babies are cute and all, but they all look the same for the first few weeks. If Everyone just had a standard library of like 20 or so pictures of newborn babies and everyone just picked one and shaired it instead of pictures of their kid no one would notice.
🤭
Is your name related to aphex twin?
Nope, It’s the short hand for crystals in chemistry and circuit board design.
Ah and the picture is from ghost in the shell
Same.
What do you mean by safe?
By safe I mean about privacy, if there’s possibility that someone can “intercept” the photos of the child. Sorry if I didn’t explain it well
In computer security it always depends on your thread model. WhatsApp is supposed to be end-to-end-encrypted, so nobody can intercept your messages. However: Once someone flags a message as inappropriate, this gets circumvented and messages get forwarded to Meta. This is only supposed to happen if it’s flagged. So unlikely in a family group. I trust this actually works the way Meta tells us, though I can’t be sure because I haven’t dissected the app and this may change in the future. And there is lawful intercept.
Mind that people can download or screenshot messages and forward them or do whatever they like with the pictures.
And another thing: If you have Sync enabled, Google Photos will sync pictures you take with their cloud servers and it’ll end up there.
And Apple does the same with their iCloud.As far as I know both platforms automatically scan pictures to help fight crime and child exploitation. We aren’t allowed to know how those algorithms work in detail. I doubt a toddler in clothes or wrapped in a blanket will trigger the automatism. They claim a ‘high level of accuracy’. But people generally advise not to take pictures of children without clothes with a smartphone. Bad incidents have already happened.Edit: Apple seems to have pushed for cloud scanning initially, but currently that doesn’t happen any more. They have some on device filters as far as I understand.
As far as I know both platforms automatically scan pictures to help fight crime and child exploitation.
Apple doesn’t. They should but they don’t. They came up with a really clever system that would do the actual scanning on your device immediately before uploading to iCloud, so their servers would never need to analyze your photos, but people went insane after they announced the plan.
Oh. I didn’t know that. I don’t use Apple products and just read the news, I must have missed how the story turned out, so thanks for the info.
Technically I suppose it doesn’t make a huge difference. It still gets scanned by Apple software. And sent to them if it’s deemed conspicuous. And the algorithm on a device is probably limited by processing power and energy budget. So it might even be less accurate. But this is just my speculation. I think all of that is more of a marketing stunt. This way the provider reduces cost, they don’t need additional servers to filter the messages and in the end it doesn’t really matter where exactly the content is processed if it’s a continuous chain like in the Apple ecosystem.
The last story I linked about the dad being incriminated for sending the doctor a picture would play out the same way, regardless.
Edit: I googled it and it seems the story with Apple has changed multiple times. The last article I read says they don’t even do on-device scanning. Just a ‘nude filter’. Whatever that is. I’m cautious around cloud services anyways. And all of that might change and also affect old pictures. We just avoided mandatory content filtering in the EU and upload filters and things like that are debated regularly. Also the US has updated their laws regarding internet crime and prevention of child exploitation in the last years. I’m generally unsure where we’re headed with this.
The proposal was only for photos stored on iCloud. Apple has a legitimate interest in not wanting to actually host abuse material on their servers. The plan was also calibrated for one in one trillion false positives (it would require multiple matches before an account could be flagged), followed by a manual review by an employee before reporting to authorities. It was so very carefully designed.
Do you happen to know a good source for information on this? I don’t want to highjack this discission, since it’s not that closely related to the original subject… But I’d be interested in more technical information. Most news articles seem to be a bit biased and I get it, both privacy and protection of children are sensible topics and there are feelings envolved.
One in a trillion sounds like a probability of a hash collision. So that would be just checking if they already have the specific image in their database. It’ll trigger if someone downloaded an already existing image and not detect new images taken with a camera. I’m somewhat fine with that.
And I was under the impression that iPhones connected to the iCloud sync the pictures per default? So “only for photos stored on iCloud” would practically mean every image you take, unless you deliberately changed the settings on your iPhone?
Do you happen to know a good source for information on this?
Apple released detailed whitepapers and information about it when originally proposed but they shelved it so I don’t think they’re still readily available.
One in a trillion sounds like a probability of a hash collision.
Basically yes, but they’re assuming a much greater likelihood of a single hash collision. The system would upload a receipt of the on-device scan along with each photo. A threshold number of matches would be set to achieve the one in a trillion confidence level. I believe the initial estimate was roughly 30 images. In other words, you’d need to be uploading literally dozens of CSAM images for your account to get flagged. And these accompanying receipts use advanced cryptography so it’s not like they’re seeing “oh this account has 5 potential matches and this one has 10”; anything below the threshold would have zero flags. Only when enough “bad” receipts showed up for the same account would they collectively flag it.
And I was under the impression that iPhones connected to the iCloud sync the pictures per default?
This is for people who use iCloud Photo Library, which you have to turn on.
Interception by a third party is highly unlike, as the transport layer of basically everything is encrypted nowadays. What is left unknown is what can Meta do once the file is on their servers, as you’ll have to trust Zuckk’s word and Zuckk’s encryption
But the Signal people also say the e2e is trustworthy, no (Whatsapp, I mean)?
If Meta would really not know your Messages and encryption Keys, they would not be able to recover Every single one oft your messages even if you forgot your Password.
Last time I needed that they could not. They needed either the backup (which is less secure and private but your choice whether to use or not, I think it uploads to Google Drive or so?) Or another device that is still working that is linked to the same account.
It’s end to end encrypted so they can’t see it then. What they could do is access it once it’s on your device and unencrypted potentially.
Or through unencrypted by default backup. It goes on Google drive and there’s no guarantee that it doesn’t go to Meta.
No , but they will get the meta data. But image should be secure. But then your recepient download it , upload it to Google cloud and so on
If someone is able to intercept WhatsApp messages, they aren’t using it to look at photos of your baby they’re using it to spy on government officials
You could hand deliver them in a sealed envelope but it won’t stop the recipient scanning them then sharing them on messenger, texts etc.
You’d need to consider where and how they get shared beyond the person you send them to, to then decide which level of privacy is appropriate. Ultimately, even though others don’t recommend WhatsApp (nor would I) - it’s maybe the best option in this case. Accessibility, ease of sharing just no guarantees on the encryption because the source is behind closed doors.
It depends on if you trust Meta. Generally speaking there is end-to-end encryption in WhatsApp, which means only you and the person you chat with can decrypt your messages / media (source). I believe there are some weak spots in group chats, mostly caused by users themselves. Not sure about the new Community function but I’d be careful with what I share there.
Some parties like Apple have decided to scan photos from your device for illegal material (edit: after backlash they dropped this for now, my bad). If using an app like WhatsApp I’d personally be aware that something like that might happen in the future as well. I’d not be surprised if some employees might (temporarily) be able to access more data than widely assumed, for debugging reasons in case of bugs.
Personally I take the risk for pragmatic reasons, but it doesn’t hurt to be a bit cautious / aware.
iirc Microsoft is doing it, read of a case where a parent sent a picture of his son to the doctor via onedrove share and his entire account got suspended over it.
Some parties like Apple have decided to scan photos from your device for illegal material.
No they haven’t, they aren’t, and they never even discussed scanning your messages like that. There’s a communication safety feature available to enable in parental controls so that if a child’s phone locally recognizes (using machine learning) that they received or are about to send a nude photo, the receiving photo is blurred and they’re given information about making safe choices and then allowed to continue or not.
No they haven’t, they aren’t, and they never even discussed scanning your messages like that.
They discussed it (source) but the backlash was enough to kill the project for now. Instead, they implemented the “opt-in” system you are talking about.
They discussed something adjacent, not anything that would scan and disclose your encrypted messages.
Thanks for correcting me, you are right about the image scanning. Added an edit to my statement.
No. Never use a messenger for those things, that is legally allowed in most nations. They advertise e2e-encryption and stuff, but also need to comply to governments.
Remember e. G. The reason telegram’s owner was kicked out of his own country because he didn’t comply to leaving a backdoor for the gov? And how it’s, in some nations, one of the only few messenger left that can be used to express a free opinion without “dissapearing” after?
With your pics you’ll train AI-models for free at best.
I would never ever share personal stuff over some mega-corpo’s “free” thing.
but also need to comply to governments.
I dont know about every country, but as far i know in germany at least you only need to disclose the information you actually have. Eg: if you dont have the encryption keys, the government cant do shit with the encrypted messages they habe
So, correct me if im not right, but a messenger could be privacy respecting and legal at the same time
Well, telegram e. G. Still is problematic in germany due to not complying. We in germany might be relatively safe for now, that’s true. But don’t forget what’s at dawn for us. Then tgram & co will be banned and whatscrap will thrieve even more.
I might come across as bitter, but that’s only because i am 😁
Agreed,. In a capitalistic economy, nothing is free.
Signal with a view once message is better than a lot of the available options. Also maybe threema, simplex or session but Signal is more popular nowadays.
Safe?
Yeah, safe in the sense that it would be difficult for someone to intercept and steal/alter. That doesn’t prevent whomever your sending it to saving it an insecure manner.
But there’s one REALLY important variable here/ nobody wants to steal a picture of your kid. Nobody cares.
