• Aielman15@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    Religion is ignorance and refusal to face reality.

    As long as people behave, treat others, and vote according to the sacred scriptures written by a crackhead thousands of years ago, and their influence shapes the world around me and puts a limit to my freedom, then there will be no distinction between religion and extremism. The lesser of two evils is still evil.

    • RangerJosie@lemmy.world
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      9 days ago

      It was necessary when we understood nothing. Thats not an excuse we can use anymore.

      We have understanding. We have gained knowledge that makes religion meaningless. It did its job, served its purpose. Now its time to grow beyond it.

    • SPRUNT@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Are you kidding me? Religion is supremely useful in controlling and exploiting people. It promises all of the wonderment and fantasticnous you can imagine while also promising the absolute worst nightmares you can imagine, and all you have to do is pay and pray, and the prayers are optional.

      “Work in service to your masters and you will be rewarded after you’re dead. Defy your masters and you will be punished for eternity” is the perfect tool of control for the uneducated/unintelligent.

  • meyotch@slrpnk.net
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    9 months ago

    A distinction without a difference. Religion produces demonstrable harm to many people. To be religious is to be an extremist. The entire idea that a being from your imagination should influence my behavior is whack.

    • hungryphrog@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      9 months ago

      Because apparently Christianity is the only religion in existence and all religious people want you to practice their religion. Or something.

    • fastandcurious@lemmy.worldOP
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      9 months ago

      Again, can you tell me how if you are not religious, how is religion influencing you? And how is your opinion different than any other religious extremist who also claims that anyone who doesn’t follow x religion is bigot? It’s the same thing where everyone is just hating everyone else who doesn’t share the same belief, except being an atheist somehow gives you a free pass to bash on everyone else’s belief, you all then should not be complaining if anyone starts saying all atheism is extremism

      Edit: I am gonna clarify that I personally don’t think atheism itself is extremism, anyone has the right to chose what path they think is correct

      • meyotch@slrpnk.net
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        9 months ago

        Something about my religious leaders wanting to strap electrodes to my junk and torture me for being gay has given me some strong opinions. Don’t you dare dismiss my experiences as invalid, I’m fighting terrorists here.

        • tourist@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          My friend is estranged from his family because he is trans and they don’t accept him because the bible says blablabla

      • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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        9 months ago

        Religion teaches and reinforces bigoted and anti-science views, generally. Yes, there are good people that reject this basis of their religion, but religion itself has done far more harm than good.

          • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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            9 months ago

            You’re putting words in my mouth, lmao. I explicitly separated Religious people from Religion itself, and you’re tying them together as slander.

            Religion has done more harm than good as it has been the foundation of racism, homophobia, sexism, transphobia, rejection of science such as Evolution, and more. Religious people can be good, and have done good things, but Religion itself is harmful.

            I respect people’s rights to practice, but I don’t respect Religious people using religion as justification for anything bigoted, anti-science, or generally harmful.

            • Haagel@lemmings.world
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              9 months ago

              The audacity of claiming that religious adherents are uniquely racist!

              Racism is literally the foundation of Darwinism, as explicitly stated by Francis Crick, the co-discoverer of the DNA double helix.

              It’s right there in the title of Darwin’s book: On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life

              It’s human nature to fight each other, and the tendency towards extremism is universal.

              • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                9 months ago

                I did not claim religious people were uniquely racist, only that religion supports and reinforces racism. Kindly refrain from putting words in my mouth and actually answer my actual points.

                Human Nature is a naturalistic fallacy, and is a way to avoid actually addressing whether or not religion assists and reinforces racism or not.

                • Haagel@lemmings.world
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                  9 months ago

                  You said it’s the foundation of racism.

                  foundation noun foun·​da·​tion 1 : the act of founding here since the foundation of the school 2 : a basis (such as a tenet, principle, or axiom) upon which something stands or is supported the foundations of geometry the rumor is without foundation in fact

                  Technical arguments don’t change the fact that Darwinism is inherently racist.

        • fastandcurious@lemmy.worldOP
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          9 months ago

          Please provide sources for your claims, what religion you want to believe in is a different topic, read the books of all the major religions and see how many and which one of them is ‘bigoted’ and ‘Anti-Scientific’

          If you are not gonna do that, atleast not fire such claims because you yourself don’t have the knowledge.

          • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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            9 months ago

            All major religions reject science by asserting the baseless claim of divinity. They propose a foundational divine, without any proof. This is anti-science.

            As for being bigoted, quick examples are Christianity and the other Abrahamic religions supporting homophobia, transphobia, sexism, strong gender roles, and more.

  • WallEx@feddit.de
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    9 months ago

    Institutionalized religion is bad, religion for yourself isn’t imho. I can understand the need for answers, although I don’t necessarily need them. I think that is part of tolerance, to accept the believes of others.

    • 7heo@lemmy.ml
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      9 months ago

      “Religion for yourself” in the age of internet of called “personal belief”. So, the term “religion” now only means, like it or not, “institutionalized religion”.

      This is 100% caused by the fact that people “identify” as Y (not using X as a variable, as it is now a fucking confusing buzzword), and are subsequently grouped together in “echo rooms” by various platforms algorithms. This happened so overwhelmingly that in less than a decade, it redefined the default behavior of people, online, and you will now see people automatically seeking those echo rooms. Even on Lemmy, where people are literally seeking instances that will validate their own beliefs, and block those they do not share.

      • WallEx@feddit.de
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        9 months ago

        Thats … Just your believes man

        If you keep away from social media as much as possible (as anyone should) its not so bad. I know a few people, that don’t go to church but believe in god.

        No one feels great by being critiqued, but its necessary imho.

    • mexicancartel@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      9 months ago

      I can understand the need for answers, although I don’t necessarily need them.

      Btw do you think atheists always need answers for everything? I think atheists can be okay without knowing the answer. The religious people are the ones who always wants an answer(wrong answer counts) and they always explain thinks they can’t explain as “god’s creation/mystery/whatever”

      • WallEx@feddit.de
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        9 months ago

        No I certainly don’t have have all the answers, the people that think they do are a huge problem.

        I can understand the need for an explanation, but I simply don’t have that need, although I like to know how things work. But if we as humantiy don’t know I don’t think its so bad.

        Yeah, if you try to change the facts because of your believe we have a problem. If your religion can adapt to new facts (or live besides them) I don’t really care.

        • mexicancartel@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          9 months ago

          People created god as an explaination of how the world is created and maintained. People who do science really knows that we can’t know everything for sure, and are familiar and okay with not knowing that thing.

          I said we cant know everything but we must be okay with that. Religion just takes something they see and put the “god made this” label and refuses to question god.

          If religious people don’t have that need for explaination, would they belive god created everything? Aren’t they okay with saying “we don’t really know how everything was created”?

          I can understand the need for an explanation

          Religion usually explains with something wrong and the followers simply take it as real truth. Don’t say atheists are the ones who need explaination for everything

          • WallEx@feddit.de
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            9 months ago

            There is no one religion and they sure don’t handle conflicts with science the same way, so which one are you talking about?

            For example, Buddhism in its core is accepting of change in the world and aims to adapt.

            • mexicancartel@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              9 months ago

              which one are you talking about?

              Which is “your” religion? I’m pretty sure it isnt Buddhism. I am talking about whatever religion that puts “god” as almighty and the one who made everything including us.

              • WallEx@feddit.de
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                9 months ago

                I dont have one, but its an important part of peoples lives, so i think about this stuff.

                The point being, that i have less issues with that way of resolving conflicts between your believes and scientific facts.

                • mexicancartel@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  9 months ago

                  Thoose “god belivers” are like against spirit of science. Not scientific facts but scientific spirit of accepting that we have much more things to know and cannot put a god as someone who made everything the way it is, without questioning.

    • Ignotum@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      An adult that still believes in Santa might not lead to anything bad, but it leads to them indoctrinating their children to also believe in Santa into adulthood,

      And if some dude can live on the north pole and travel to every home on earth in one night, then other equally ludicrous ideas might not sound so far fetched

      And before you know it you’re wearing radioactive stickers to rebalance your chakras, sticking jade eggs up your ass to bring luck and you’re blowing up a shopping mall because your imaginary friend hates gay people

        • Ignotum@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          That sounds an awful lot like sexual depravity, which makes god sad for some reason so i believe you’ll be cast into a fiery pit to have your skin melted off, regrown, then melted off again, for all eternity. And this will be just, a punishment that fits the crime

          And while you’re in excruciating pain for all eternity just remember: god loves you ♥️

    • Dyskolos@lemmy.zip
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      9 months ago

      You don’t need religion to believe in something, did this occur to you? I don’t have anything against people who believe some even weird shit. Let me hear it, let us discuss it, but do as you please (who am i to judge? I don’t know the truth).

      But the moment you enter some cult (or religion if you prefer that term), you’re on my hate-list. They are to control the weak sheeple. Period.

      Why do people always take it, that belief equals religion?

      • WallEx@feddit.de
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        9 months ago

        It did, because believe systems are religions I didn’t differentiate, because its besides the point.

  • Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de
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    9 months ago

    I think the argument for moderation is the worst in the religious context.

    Pascal was right about his Wager in one way. If god exists, it should change everything for you. Especially the christian one. Eternity in pain or pleasure outweighs everything.

    If that is your reality, how is failing god moderation?

    Seriously if you don’t want people to die from cancer at all, how is that not extermist?

    Are reference point defines “moderation”? Look at us vs eu politics.

    Even if you want to define moderation as the average or median position in a society, then Nazism can be moderation if you get enough Nazi together.

    Wake up, my fellow extremist.

    • R0cket_M00se@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Pascal’s wager doesn’t even attempt to make a philosophical argument for God’s existence, and it only works if you assume a singular god. Of course in this case it’s Christianity.

      So let’s say someone agrees that it’s better to worship a god on the off chance they exist than to not do so and end up in hell, now what? Where do I go from here? You’ve opened up a can of worms because now I have to decide what the logical choice is (since PW only relies purely on logic) in which god to choose.

      The “logical choice” only works when you have a singular alternative, but if you have a dozen different gods to choose from then everything falls apart. The only logical thing to do is to worship the god with the worst hell, on the off chance that they are the one true God. At least you spared yourself from that.

      In the end though the wager essentially only sees/works with atheism and one religion, which is why it’s so flawed. The moment you introduce multiple religions to a coin toss logic scenario it fails to work.

      • Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de
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        9 months ago

        You typed so much and understood so little.

        I don’t think pascal’s wager works. Which is why I said, I said he is right about one thing which is the infinites reward fucking up everything. IF!!! there is a god, and he rewards and punishes you like pascal believed, then everything becomes irrelevant compared to it. Failing to follow god would be an extremist action. Unacceptable due to the unmeasurable damage it would cause. Think about it, in an atheistic world, a Terror Attack is bad, like really bad, but the damage is finite. In pascal’s world, disbelief has worse consequences. The harm is bigger, to a literally infinite amount. For pascal, your disbelief should be worse than bombing a Christian church while there is a service.

        • retrieval4558@mander.xyz
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          9 months ago

          You are talking about different and compatible critiques of pascal’s wager, and your condescension at the beginning of the post is unwarranted because he is correct, just not talking about the same thing you are.

    • Gladaed@feddit.de
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      9 months ago

      Your assumption is that religion wants you to suffer.

      Religion, in my experience, wants you to be compassionate, accepting and give back to the community. This is not extreme.

      • Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de
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        9 months ago

        Could you show me that assumption? I don’t see that assumption present in my comment. Please help me to understand your perspective. Thanks.

        • Gladaed@feddit.de
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          9 months ago

          Most people talk about Religions people being fanaticists with a disregard for human wellbeing. (Outside of their religion) I associate this with the sects that emigrated to America due to prosecution in Europe and American New religons. (Amish, those Utah people etc., those wierd evangelicals(?))

          Of course there are also good religious groups in America.

          • Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de
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            9 months ago

            How is that related to my comment and how does that answer my request for clarification? I am sorry but this seem completely unrelated.

  • ComradeSharkfucker@lemmy.ml
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    9 months ago

    Tbf extremism itself isn’t wrong. Any perspective can be considered extreme if it is too different from the status quo. Different isn’t necessarily bad.

    Granted religious extremism is typically far right reactionary ideology which is bad so I’m not really defending it. However, I find that a lot of people, especially Americans, call anything that radically challenges the current system extreme and therefore bad.

    • Belzebubulubu@mujico.org
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      9 months ago

      You are half right but I understand where you are coming from, you see extremism as what the bigots tell you it is (feminism, LGBT+, etc). But I in fact thing that taking an idea and turning the notch to a 100 always turns it bad, for example: Feminism turns into misandry when turn to the extreme, right wing turns into facism, black right movements can turn into black power, religion turns into cults, etc.

      But I agree that there are some cases in where this does not apply like gender equality (but thought I don’t know how that works tho).

      • ComradeSharkfucker@lemmy.ml
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        9 months ago

        This is an aspect of horseshoe theory which is pretty meh tbh. Could you not say that the current status quo is extreme? It would have been considered that way by monarchists back in the day. Extremism is just radical change to the current social order which can end very well or very poorly.

        Personally I think labelling ideologies as extreme is a way for those who benefit from the current social order to encourage those who don’t to dismiss radical change as dangerous and destructive rather than an opportunity for growth.

        Capitalism is an extreme change when compared to feudalism but it is better no?

        If you’re interested I’d really recommend reading blackshirts and reds by Michael Parenti pdf audio. it’s a relatively short read at only 154 pages but it really helped develop my views on this subject

  • flying_sheep@lemmy.ml
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    9 months ago

    “extremism” is what neoliberals invented to liken egalitarians with Nazis to make themselves look good.

  • mildlyusedbrain@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    Tell me you are a Christian who is sad that people keep calling out how Christians have vitriolic hatred for their fellow man with telling me you are a Christian.

    Also anyone get a strong feeling that by extremist, OP means Muslims not Christofacist in the US