And we are only bound by a DNR IF we have the actual document in hand. Or as EMS, if CPR has already been started when we arrive, we are automatically obligated to continue. If it ain’t written down, it never happened. Nursing homes are supposed to provide the documents any time we transport such a patient as part of their medical history papers. And yes, we treat and transport a lot of such patients with a DNR that needs to go to a hospital for some reason.
Worst case scenario, entering a home with family gathered and grandma has a heart attack. And half the family wants me to start CPR and the other half tries to tell me grandma to let grandma go. I will ask them if they have the documents and they don’t answer me because they are too busy fighting each other to respond to me. And my poor driver is trying to literally breakup a fight while I’m doing CPR.
non-medical professionals should not care about DNR orders, bracelets, whatevers. Because what if it’s fake and you can’t tell the difference from a real one? You could, unknowingly, help someone commit a murder, or let a temporarily unstable person die, sure you’d be innocent, but guilt and trauma doesn’t care about your innocence
And even then, it’s not a piece of paper that you can just accept like a death coupon. It has to be signed and not contentious, and things need to line up very correctly.
My Dad had a DNR in his legal name, but the nursing staff and his room all used the common shortening of that name. Because the names didn’t line up when things went bad and there was no one with authority to clarify they, correctly, operated under the assumption that they did not have an order.
At one point EMS providers couldn’t even make the call, it could only be done by the medical facility. I’m pretty sure that’s no longer the case anywhere in the US though.
i asked my first aid instructor about DNR and he responded with a very firm “you didn’t see it”.
Only medical professionals are bound by a DNR for a good reason.
And we are only bound by a DNR IF we have the actual document in hand. Or as EMS, if CPR has already been started when we arrive, we are automatically obligated to continue. If it ain’t written down, it never happened. Nursing homes are supposed to provide the documents any time we transport such a patient as part of their medical history papers. And yes, we treat and transport a lot of such patients with a DNR that needs to go to a hospital for some reason.
Worst case scenario, entering a home with family gathered and grandma has a heart attack. And half the family wants me to start CPR and the other half tries to tell me grandma to let grandma go. I will ask them if they have the documents and they don’t answer me because they are too busy fighting each other to respond to me. And my poor driver is trying to literally breakup a fight while I’m doing CPR.
Source: A very old and happily retired medic
So did you see the things that guy on YouTube sees? https://youtube.com/shorts/PokQVSrPcR8
Is it FDC? I bet it’s FDC
Edit: It is FDC
Yes and worse. He only talks about the funny stuff. Though what might be funny to a table of EMS people, probably would make you ill to hear.
Never eat a meal with a table full of emergency medical personnel.
yeah that makes perfect sense.
non-medical professionals should not care about DNR orders, bracelets, whatevers. Because what if it’s fake and you can’t tell the difference from a real one? You could, unknowingly, help someone commit a murder, or let a temporarily unstable person die, sure you’d be innocent, but guilt and trauma doesn’t care about your innocence
And even then, it’s not a piece of paper that you can just accept like a death coupon. It has to be signed and not contentious, and things need to line up very correctly.
My Dad had a DNR in his legal name, but the nursing staff and his room all used the common shortening of that name. Because the names didn’t line up when things went bad and there was no one with authority to clarify they, correctly, operated under the assumption that they did not have an order.
At one point EMS providers couldn’t even make the call, it could only be done by the medical facility. I’m pretty sure that’s no longer the case anywhere in the US though.