This is what I also realized with work. It’s better to rest and recover in 2-3 days, then struggle for 4-5 or more (even from home office). Luckily, at my workplace in Germany, you can take 2 days of sick leave without any doctor’s note.
Or think about it this way, would you rather have 2 weeks of PTO or one week of vacation and one week of sick leave? Or even 2.5 weeks PTO vs 2 weeks vacation and 1 week sick leave and you need to provide a reason for the sick leave?
I much prefer PTO over some mixed policy, even if the mix is technically more time off.
so discipline those that abuse it? It’s really a symptom of not engaging with your workforce on a realistic level. Many non-American countries deal with it adequately. In the UK your sick days don’t come out of your vacation, and if you need more than a week off you have to get a doctor’s note.
And whether that’s a good system comes down to the quality of your immediate leadership. PTO gives you essentially a right to use time off for whatever you need, whereas discretionary time off comes down to the discretion of your manager. Some prefer the guarantee over a promise.
I’d argue that “you can use it however you want” is pissing on my boots and telling me it’s raining.
I want to use my vacation for vacation, as it’s vacation. I don’t want to use my vacation for being sick. If it is truly what I want that really matters, then shouldn’t that be respected?
PTO isn’t vacation though, it’s “Personal Time Off,” which is a combination of sick leave and vacation time.
If you compare two roles, one with separate vacation and sick leave and the other with combined PTO, the PTO will be higher than the vacation, but lower than the combined total time off. You lose a little for that flexibility, but there’s no guarantee that you’ll be able to use all of the sick leave.
I prefer PTO because I don’t get sick all that often, and my company allows me to WFH when sick (it’s more flexible than that). My dad had separate sick leave and vacation, and he never used up his sick leave so a lot of it would be wasted.
Yes, but please be aware that sick leave here is nearly unlimited, and you get your full salary (for several months), so of course there needs to be some control on it.
Unlimited isn’t worth very much if it’s subject to approval. I’ve had friends get unlimited time off (not sick leave, vacation time) and they end up using less of it than me due to the approval step and related social norms.
I’m not saying your situation is like that, I’m just saying I’m skeptical of offers like that.
My setup is 3.5 weeks PTO, 3x/week WFH, and I can WFH those other days if I need to (pretty flexible, just requires notice, not approval). So I end up taking 2-3 days off sick, and the other 3 weeks are vacation, and I usually take them 1-2 weeks at a time. Hours worked also aren’t tracked, we just need to hit deliverables every two weeks based on our own estimates.
So yeah, I’ll take the bird in the hand over the two in the bush.
This is what I also realized with work. It’s better to rest and recover in 2-3 days, then struggle for 4-5 or more (even from home office). Luckily, at my workplace in Germany, you can take 2 days of sick leave without any doctor’s note.
tell that to my PTO policy. I’m getting sick and getting paid, and spending my limited vacation on times I feel good.
Or think about it this way, would you rather have 2 weeks of PTO or one week of vacation and one week of sick leave? Or even 2.5 weeks PTO vs 2 weeks vacation and 1 week sick leave and you need to provide a reason for the sick leave?
I much prefer PTO over some mixed policy, even if the mix is technically more time off.
I should just be able to call in sick if I’m sick. Why even track it?
Because people will abuse it, which sucks. And if you go with an unlimited PTO option, there’s often a lot of cultural pressure to not take PTO.
so discipline those that abuse it? It’s really a symptom of not engaging with your workforce on a realistic level. Many non-American countries deal with it adequately. In the UK your sick days don’t come out of your vacation, and if you need more than a week off you have to get a doctor’s note.
And whether that’s a good system comes down to the quality of your immediate leadership. PTO gives you essentially a right to use time off for whatever you need, whereas discretionary time off comes down to the discretion of your manager. Some prefer the guarantee over a promise.
I’d argue that “you can use it however you want” is pissing on my boots and telling me it’s raining.
I want to use my vacation for vacation, as it’s vacation. I don’t want to use my vacation for being sick. If it is truly what I want that really matters, then shouldn’t that be respected?
PTO isn’t vacation though, it’s “Personal Time Off,” which is a combination of sick leave and vacation time.
If you compare two roles, one with separate vacation and sick leave and the other with combined PTO, the PTO will be higher than the vacation, but lower than the combined total time off. You lose a little for that flexibility, but there’s no guarantee that you’ll be able to use all of the sick leave.
I prefer PTO because I don’t get sick all that often, and my company allows me to WFH when sick (it’s more flexible than that). My dad had separate sick leave and vacation, and he never used up his sick leave so a lot of it would be wasted.
I have almost 30 work days PTO plus virtually unlimited paid sick leave. Both basically standard over here.
Always amazes me that the US is not already chopping heads because of the bad health system alone
Wait, you need a doctor’s note for more than 2 days of sick leave?
Yes, but please be aware that sick leave here is nearly unlimited, and you get your full salary (for several months), so of course there needs to be some control on it.
Unlimited isn’t worth very much if it’s subject to approval. I’ve had friends get unlimited time off (not sick leave, vacation time) and they end up using less of it than me due to the approval step and related social norms.
I’m not saying your situation is like that, I’m just saying I’m skeptical of offers like that.
My setup is 3.5 weeks PTO, 3x/week WFH, and I can WFH those other days if I need to (pretty flexible, just requires notice, not approval). So I end up taking 2-3 days off sick, and the other 3 weeks are vacation, and I usually take them 1-2 weeks at a time. Hours worked also aren’t tracked, we just need to hit deliverables every two weeks based on our own estimates.
So yeah, I’ll take the bird in the hand over the two in the bush.
There is no approval needed: