the problem isn’t whether 8 GB are enough for the average joe. the problem is Apple are charging 1599$ for an 8 GB laptop. even for that price, 16 GB are really pushing it — especially with only 512 GB of storage space.
I once shared a similar opinion and also suggesting a more premium screen option and also suggested that perhaps Apple are not as innovative as they used to be but got bombarded with downvotes and aggressiveness by Apple fans and apologists saying things like, “if you cannot afford premium (for the record, I have several expensive Apple devices), then get a crappy Samsung Galaxy or something with its poor battery life and lack of tablet-optimized apps while we enjoy premium quality.”
It was then that further cemented for me that Apple (as well as many other corporations and even people) likely has a crazy amount of loud, arrogant, condescending, rude (but loyal) fans on Reddit (or the internet in general) who will defend them until the end and these are the people who encourage Apple to be complacent and perhaps even greedy.
That’s something that honestly has refreshed me browsing r/Leatherman. Yeah, Leatherman fanboys will rant against Gerber and SOG tools all day, but they’re also mad shitting on Leatherman when they misstep.
The funny thing is that a LOT of those that say things like that, have an iPhone SE and a 10 year old MacBook and talk as if those that got a 1800 dollar Galaxy Fold are poor.
Obviously there’s nothing wrong with those. Just saying it’s a weird ass mindset to pretend your cheaper and significantly older product is better because it has some brand and not another.
Apple really did amazingly well with their marketing. They managed to make some people believe that a literal consumer product, that sells into the hundreds of millions each year, is some sort of ultra premium item that’s unattainable and brings some prestige above the rest and it generates some inexplicable weird fetish.
What does that matter? The rest of the laptop is top of the line. Best display, best brightness, best battery, best build, super fast CPU. What’s a comparable laptop that’s cheaper?
I’m going to provide some context – I may be downvoted.
The problem isn’t that the cost of the ram individually, it’s the cost of the entire SKU at scale. Which is what people forget.
The reason you can buy 64gb sticks cheap is for a few reasons – it’s a singular component that has to compete in a single category and also the volume at which it is manufactured at makes this price possible.
Each Apple configuration is mostly unique in the sense that each board design is its own because components are soldered in.
They have a handful of LPDDR5x capacities and mix-and-match them as needed.
Like 1 8GB chip for a M3 with 8GB of RAM, 2 8GB chips for a M3 with 16GB of RAM, 2 12GB chips for a M3 with 24GB of RAM, 3 6GB chips for a M3 Pro with 18GB of RAM, 3 12GB chips for a M3 Pro with 36GB of RAM, etc., etc. with the M3s using 1 or 2 channel RAM, the M3 Pros using 3 channel RAM and the M3 Maxes using 4 channel RAM and the top spec RAM configuration being 4 32GB (128GB total) modules.
In fact the M3 with the 8GB configuration literally has an empty RAM slot on the motherboard they didn’t populate. They likely have three motherboard configurations - dual channel, three channel and four channel motherboards with a M3, M3 Pro or M3 Max respectively.
And they get away with it because their average consumer thinks they need a $2k laptop to write essays or browse twitter so they aren’t even sweating it with 8gb
Yeah my argument isn’t “no 8GB laptops” (though let’s be honest, at $1,100 for even a MacBook Air they COULD do 16 without messing up their margins).
The argument is: no $1,600 MacBook PRO laptops with 8GB.
Max Tech’s video here does a great job of showing just how insufficient 8GB really truly is. With NO difference but RAM, even with some pretty basic everyday workloads, the 16GB version is VASTLY faster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmWPd7uEYEY
For $1599, I should get 500 lbs. of repetitive, manufactured, internet outrage!
How will I feed my kids without a daily dose of outrage?
My only real skill is being outraged about some phone or computer spec, regardless of the real world utility or user experience, so I’ll be out of work if I don’t work up a good lather of outrage!
What outrage do we have planned for tomorrow? I need to eat!
Apple does not have a monopoly on laptops. You can always buy an intel laptop with windows or linux if Apple’s value proposition does not work for you. E.g. one of my work laptops is a Dell with 32GB of RAM.
The problem isn’t Apple being greedy, they are a profit making company……that’s what they are supposed to do. the REAL problem is we the consumers rewarding their greed by continuously buying the products regardless of how they shaft us. That’s the real problem. Just because you can afford a premium device doesn’t mean you are not being shafted….it just means you can afford to be shafted!
If we all stopped buying Apple products for 3yrs…… oh they will make changes….they are a business after all.
The problem isn’t Apple being greedy, they are a profit making company……that’s what they are supposed to do.
Sorry, I have to object to that defence. It’s absurd nonsense in the highest degree. Many companies are commercial. Banks are commercial entities, but what separates them from those lenders that charge 1000% (e.g. loan sharks) is a level of unscrupulousness that is beyond the pale. Just as companies extorting their customers is beyond the pale. Being a commercial company does not justify rampant rapaciousness.
Basically, what you are saying is that the highly knowledgeable accounting and marketing teams at Apple know exactly what they can charge for their computers and upgrades, and after 30 years they are really really good at knowing what consumers will pay. They must know better than anyone here on Reddit as none of us currently manage the largest market cap company in the world…
The main problem is that it’s not upgradable, if it was upgradable you can give me 2GB on the base model and I wouldn’t care, RAM is cheap.
The situation now is you spend 1599$, then in a few years if you want more RAM/Storage you need to buy a new laptop again because it’s impossible to upgrade.
Well, I despise Apple, because in addition to being greedy, they’re destroying this planet with waste (planned obsolescence, proprietary cable types, soldered everything…) …and all for short term gains.
That being said, I have nowhere else to go, because Apple is the only company that can give me the product that I need. Intel, and Microsoft Windows are a clown show, and have been since forever (I have a Windows desktop too… had many in the past). I’m a software dev.
If I had a viable option, I’d drop Apple in an instant. Actually, I have dropped the iPhone and iPad already (call it courage), just waiting for a great (quiet, low power and high performing) laptop that will run something similar to OSX, …and unfortunately, I don’t think that Microsoft is ever going to be able to deliver that. I wish Linux could, but not until there’s one “consumer” distro, …and that will also never happen.
While there is some truth in your statement, when you look at the TCO of an Apple Device, it lasts a lot longer than any other device on the market, for this I’m personally happy to pay more and again only my opinion. Try getting even 3 years out of anything that runs Windows.
The R&D Apple are sinking into making their own processors and software run more efficiently is years ahead of others especially when it comes to battery life.
Along with using iCloud, your Mac will manage your storage and offload to the cloud.
I think the hardware software combo is on point and whilst seen as expensive, is parity to the same offering from other tier 1 vendors.
Just priced the 14” MacBook Pro with 18Gb of Memory and 512SSD it’s still cheaper than the MS studio laptop with the same specs. But the M3 CPU will kill the 13th Gen useless intel i7 chips. Mac was $80 cheaper than the MS offering.
You’d be lucky to get 4 hours out of the Studio battery and all your memory will be gone in edge/chrome tabs anyway.
the problem isn’t whether 8 GB are enough for the average joe. the problem is Apple are charging 1599$ for an 8 GB laptop. even for that price, 16 GB are really pushing it — especially with only 512 GB of storage space.
so yes, the problem is Apple are being greedy.
Really?
I once shared a similar opinion and also suggesting a more premium screen option and also suggested that perhaps Apple are not as innovative as they used to be but got bombarded with downvotes and aggressiveness by Apple fans and apologists saying things like, “if you cannot afford premium (for the record, I have several expensive Apple devices), then get a crappy Samsung Galaxy or something with its poor battery life and lack of tablet-optimized apps while we enjoy premium quality.”
It was then that further cemented for me that Apple (as well as many other corporations and even people) likely has a crazy amount of loud, arrogant, condescending, rude (but loyal) fans on Reddit (or the internet in general) who will defend them until the end and these are the people who encourage Apple to be complacent and perhaps even greedy.
That’s something that honestly has refreshed me browsing r/Leatherman. Yeah, Leatherman fanboys will rant against Gerber and SOG tools all day, but they’re also mad shitting on Leatherman when they misstep.
I’m an Apple fan lol, some zealots exist but there’s lots of paid shills too.
Apple also astroturfs reddit quite badly (just like microsoft does, and certain film stars).
The funny thing is that a LOT of those that say things like that, have an iPhone SE and a 10 year old MacBook and talk as if those that got a 1800 dollar Galaxy Fold are poor.
Obviously there’s nothing wrong with those. Just saying it’s a weird ass mindset to pretend your cheaper and significantly older product is better because it has some brand and not another.
Apple really did amazingly well with their marketing. They managed to make some people believe that a literal consumer product, that sells into the hundreds of millions each year, is some sort of ultra premium item that’s unattainable and brings some prestige above the rest and it generates some inexplicable weird fetish.
I have never understood the people who feel the need to white knight some mega corp.
Neither Samsung nor Apple are gonna sleep with you, bro.
They’ll keep doing it as long as people keep buying it. Why charge less when people are always willing to pay more?
What does that matter? The rest of the laptop is top of the line. Best display, best brightness, best battery, best build, super fast CPU. What’s a comparable laptop that’s cheaper?
I’m going to provide some context – I may be downvoted.
The problem isn’t that the cost of the ram individually, it’s the cost of the entire SKU at scale. Which is what people forget.
The reason you can buy 64gb sticks cheap is for a few reasons – it’s a singular component that has to compete in a single category and also the volume at which it is manufactured at makes this price possible.
Each Apple configuration is mostly unique in the sense that each board design is its own because components are soldered in.
They have a handful of LPDDR5x capacities and mix-and-match them as needed.
Like 1 8GB chip for a M3 with 8GB of RAM, 2 8GB chips for a M3 with 16GB of RAM, 2 12GB chips for a M3 with 24GB of RAM, 3 6GB chips for a M3 Pro with 18GB of RAM, 3 12GB chips for a M3 Pro with 36GB of RAM, etc., etc. with the M3s using 1 or 2 channel RAM, the M3 Pros using 3 channel RAM and the M3 Maxes using 4 channel RAM and the top spec RAM configuration being 4 32GB (128GB total) modules.
In fact the M3 with the 8GB configuration literally has an empty RAM slot on the motherboard they didn’t populate. They likely have three motherboard configurations - dual channel, three channel and four channel motherboards with a M3, M3 Pro or M3 Max respectively.
And they get away with it because their average consumer thinks they need a $2k laptop to write essays or browse twitter so they aren’t even sweating it with 8gb
They don’t see that as a problem…
Yeah my argument isn’t “no 8GB laptops” (though let’s be honest, at $1,100 for even a MacBook Air they COULD do 16 without messing up their margins).
The argument is: no $1,600 MacBook PRO laptops with 8GB.
Max Tech’s video here does a great job of showing just how insufficient 8GB really truly is. With NO difference but RAM, even with some pretty basic everyday workloads, the 16GB version is VASTLY faster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmWPd7uEYEY
Thats why I went for a $1200 M1 Pro fuck the M3
Tim “And we think you’re gonna buy it anyway!”
Sadly he was true.
Source: I bought a M2 MBP last year base spec because I couldn’t justify the extra costs. Put the money towards a T7 SSD
Watch this. People who think 8gb ram macs will last long are dreaming in the coming age of AI integration.
https://youtu.be/hmWPd7uEYEY?si=-z348fXdji6g7L7s
An extra 128gb for $100 is a complete ripoff
For 1599, I would expect at least 16Gb/1Tb
It’s a completely different product but FFS the $300 Xbox Series S has 10GB of RAM. It’s unacceptable in such an expensive product.
For $1599, it should be 32GB RAM, 2TB storage.
For $1599, I should get 500 lbs. of repetitive, manufactured, internet outrage!
How will I feed my kids without a daily dose of outrage?
My only real skill is being outraged about some phone or computer spec, regardless of the real world utility or user experience, so I’ll be out of work if I don’t work up a good lather of outrage!
What outrage do we have planned for tomorrow? I need to eat!
For $1599, it should be 64GB RAM, 4TB storage
Am I doing it right?
DOUBLE IT!!!
Minimum of 24GB/1TB if no expansion.
Apple does not have a monopoly on laptops. You can always buy an intel laptop with windows or linux if Apple’s value proposition does not work for you. E.g. one of my work laptops is a Dell with 32GB of RAM.
The problem isn’t Apple being greedy, they are a profit making company……that’s what they are supposed to do. the REAL problem is we the consumers rewarding their greed by continuously buying the products regardless of how they shaft us. That’s the real problem. Just because you can afford a premium device doesn’t mean you are not being shafted….it just means you can afford to be shafted!
If we all stopped buying Apple products for 3yrs…… oh they will make changes….they are a business after all.
Sorry, I have to object to that defence. It’s absurd nonsense in the highest degree. Many companies are commercial. Banks are commercial entities, but what separates them from those lenders that charge 1000% (e.g. loan sharks) is a level of unscrupulousness that is beyond the pale. Just as companies extorting their customers is beyond the pale. Being a commercial company does not justify rampant rapaciousness.
This is why closed ecosystems can backfire greatly. There is no other MacOS device you can buy with reasonable built in storage.
Basically, what you are saying is that the highly knowledgeable accounting and marketing teams at Apple know exactly what they can charge for their computers and upgrades, and after 30 years they are really really good at knowing what consumers will pay. They must know better than anyone here on Reddit as none of us currently manage the largest market cap company in the world…
The main problem is that it’s not upgradable, if it was upgradable you can give me 2GB on the base model and I wouldn’t care, RAM is cheap.
The situation now is you spend 1599$, then in a few years if you want more RAM/Storage you need to buy a new laptop again because it’s impossible to upgrade.
Lenovo, HP and Dell all sell variants of their ‘professional’ business laptops with 8GB of RAM in the same price range as the base MBP.
Apple offering a wider range of configuration options makes the lineup MORE Pro, not less because business/enterprise customers WANT that flexibility.
The faux outrage at Apple - and only at Apple - is more than a little bit tiresome.
like what? shows me 2023 14" in business laptop from them that costs 1599$ but only gives 8GB of RAM.
Just go to their business line and filter by 8gb of ram. Lenovo shows 26 in their Thinkpad line.
https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/c/laptops/thinkpad/?referer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lenovo.com%2Fus%2Fen%2Fthink%2F&visibleDatas=704%3A8%2520GB&sortBy=priceDown
A specific model for $1600:
https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadp/thinkpad-p16-gen-2-(16-inch-intel)/len101t0069?visibleDatas=704%3A8%2520GB
A 512GB SSD costs $29 and 16GB LPDDR5 costs $20, and that’s fucking RETAIL.
Those specs should be base in the Air, with a max of 32GB/1TB in the Airs, and the Pros should start at 64GB/2TB for their base.
30% profit margin on a 1600 laptop is $480 profit per machine.
They can and should upgrade the base, hell iPhone base starts at 6GBs of RAM…
It’d be like $450 profit per base MacBook instead of $480, it’s just nickle and diming their customers.
Well, I despise Apple, because in addition to being greedy, they’re destroying this planet with waste (planned obsolescence, proprietary cable types, soldered everything…) …and all for short term gains.
That being said, I have nowhere else to go, because Apple is the only company that can give me the product that I need. Intel, and Microsoft Windows are a clown show, and have been since forever (I have a Windows desktop too… had many in the past). I’m a software dev.
If I had a viable option, I’d drop Apple in an instant. Actually, I have dropped the iPhone and iPad already (call it courage), just waiting for a great (quiet, low power and high performing) laptop that will run something similar to OSX, …and unfortunately, I don’t think that Microsoft is ever going to be able to deliver that. I wish Linux could, but not until there’s one “consumer” distro, …and that will also never happen.
While there is some truth in your statement, when you look at the TCO of an Apple Device, it lasts a lot longer than any other device on the market, for this I’m personally happy to pay more and again only my opinion. Try getting even 3 years out of anything that runs Windows.
The R&D Apple are sinking into making their own processors and software run more efficiently is years ahead of others especially when it comes to battery life.
Along with using iCloud, your Mac will manage your storage and offload to the cloud. I think the hardware software combo is on point and whilst seen as expensive, is parity to the same offering from other tier 1 vendors.
Just priced the 14” MacBook Pro with 18Gb of Memory and 512SSD it’s still cheaper than the MS studio laptop with the same specs. But the M3 CPU will kill the 13th Gen useless intel i7 chips. Mac was $80 cheaper than the MS offering.
You’d be lucky to get 4 hours out of the Studio battery and all your memory will be gone in edge/chrome tabs anyway.