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Tough game, one they should’ve won and its extra frustrating considering that the Nuggets were already short-handed before getting Jokic and Mike Malone ejected from the game.
Cade Cunningham:
We saw a better version of Cade tonight and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that it happened on a night where he spent more time on the floor with another legit offensive player in Ivey. 27 points on 7-17 shooting (11-11 from the line!) with 9 assists, even at the expense of 5 turnovers, is a very nice stat line. He had a couple of tough misses in the game’s closing possessions from having a monster night where he won the Pistons the game, but he came up just short in the end.
There is already significant talk about how heliocentric the offense became down the stretch, with Cade having the ball nearly non-stop for the final 5ish minutes of the game. While it is true that this isn’t ideal, especially considering that Ivey had played pretty well on the night, but I would remind people that in the final few possessions the Pistons got decent looks. Cade missed a couple of shots by a bit (and may have been fouled) and the one where he dropped it off to Stew was the right play, its just unfortunate that the ground-bound Isaiah Stewart was on the receiving end which allowed Michael Porter Jr to make a huge block from behind on Stewart (and on replay that one was absolutely clean as far as I’m concerned). All of this is to say that, as much as the final product was disappointing, the process was mostly alright. And while it is true that in an ideal world Cade will let Ivey do some more stuff down the stretch, those types of growing pains are exactly the reason why its so important for them to be on the floor in important moments. There will continue to be growing pains as they both pull and push to find their right lanes, but as long as they are allowed to do that I’m okay with the results being poor at times this season.
Jaden Ivey:
Obviously touched on him a bit already but a very solid night for Ivey. In 30 minutes (even when he starts we can’t let him play too much after all) he had 17 points on 7-8 shooting with 4 boards and 3 assists. The downside was 4 turnovers but I’m trying to push a narrative here.
Even narrative aside its hard to come away from this game not feeling really good about Ivey. He picked his spots, was aggressive in transition, and the turnovers were of the classic “Driving to the hoop before realizing he bit off more than he can chew” types that are inevitable with young players as opposed to plays that are objectively stupid/lazy/bad reads. Also worth pointing out that I think he was genuinely good on the defensive end for much of the night. At the end of the day it is clear that Ivey is simply too talented and too good to not be playing 30+ minutes per game for this team.
You seem a little bit too cheery about all this
Before the season I said that the thing I wanted to see more than anything else from this season was Cade and Jaden playing together and growing together. We got that tonight for the first time. If that is happening I can stomach losses, especially when they are close losses where the shots just don’t fall down the stretch.
(ill also admit that I still love watching Reggie Jackson so it was hard for me to even get too upset about him torching the Pistons down the stretch)
Ausar Thompson:
Less involved tonight, also wasn’t as impactful defensively as he often has been. Very important to note that the defense is more of a comment on how good he has been, he still had some very good moments including a HUGE block early in the game. But he struggled a bit and found himself in foul trouble tonight.
Offensively, 4-10 from the field for 8 points. Had some really nice cuts but also caused some troubles down the stretch by not being guarded and occasionally cutting to the wrong place.
Isaiah Stewart:
11 points and 11 rebounds sounds fine but I just didn’t think it was good enough tonight. Perhaps the greatest indictment of Stew is the fact that after Jokic got ejected the Nuggets had Aaron Gordon as the nominal center for the majority of the night and at no point did it feel like the Pistons had an advantage inside despite ostensibly going “big” with Stewart and Bagley next to each other. Simply put, Stewart has the offensive profile of a big but he isn’t actually big or athletic enough to actually do the big-man stuff you need.
Marvin Bagley:
Just to get the negative out of the way, obviously part of the blame from Stew’s section falls on Bagley as well. The fact that the Nuggets never seemed to struggle with the Pistons size after the ejection of Jokic is not good.
Still, a positive game for Bagley because it isn’t absurd to suggest he played Jokic to a draw early in the game. I doubt it would’ve lasted (after Jokic’s first tech he came down the floor and scored on Marvin so easily it was comical and I suspect that if he had kept his mouth shut he would’ve done more of that in the second half) but Marvin got several tough buckets and even avoided being a complete disaster on the defensive end. He finished with 18 points on 7-13 shooting along with 8 boards in 26 minutes of play. His buckets were tough, he competed on both ends and was generally a positive tonight. This also marks the first time he’s been pressed into heavier minutes this season where my recap isn’t some for of how obviously overmatched he is as a starter.
Isaiah Livers:
Back from injury, Livers was effective defensively but on offense 6 points on 1-7 shooting (4-4 from the line) isn’t going to be good enough. That said, with the way he defends, if he can make good on his promise as a shooter he could be exactly what the team needs.
James Wiseman:
nah
Alec Burks:
Another game of regression. Just 3 points on 1-5 shooting from the field and 0-4 from deep in 17 minutes. The regression was always going to come after his hot start but hopefully, it doesn’t stay this significant because it is abundantly clear that his hot shooting was the only thing keeping this bench group afloat.
Killian Hayes:
Also back from injury, just 14 minutes and didn’t score. There is a big takeaway here though. Playing with the bench, and with Alec Burks no longer a walking fire tornado, its abundantly clear that he isn’t really a facilitator. He may not turn the ball over often, he may make the right pass to get assists with regularity, but he simply doesn’t command the attention of opposing defenses in a way that allows him to create easy looks for his teammates. Without a really good (or just very hot) shooter on the floor with him to do the heavy lifting it exposes him to this. And to be clear, I don’t want to be too hard on Killian and he’s having a very nice season, but it is stark how with Burks going cold the bench offense is simply dead on arrival.
Stanley Umude:
In 18 minutes he scored 11 points on 4-8 shooting which included a sweet up and under layup sandwiched between a pair of three-pointers. I know its a dangerous thing with these “barely in the league” guys but I really think Umude should get a real shot in the rotation over the next month or so. Whenever he’s played he’s done nothing but hustle defensively and hit shots on offense.
Marcus Sasser:
Just 5 minutes, it would appear that he may be on the rotational chopping block. It’s tough but also fairly reasonable. After a hot start his impact has wained recently., although I hope they can manage to carve out at least some minutes for him.
General:
A tough loss, and I totally understand all of the frustrations people have, but for now I’m going to simply be contented with Ivey and Cade finally getting some good run together.
James wisemen section 😂 idk how can a number 2 pick can be so shit.
Also bagley should’ve gotten in. He’s an athletic slasher and would’ve at least converted something at the end
Losing sucks, but losing and not knowing if this team has a number one guy for the future is devastating. I don’t mind the losing as much to be honest if Cade plays great given the injuries this team has. Not having Bojan and Morris is big given how young this team is, and if we see Ivey, Duren, and Ausar grow appropriately then I’m good
I can’t even be mad; since we finally saw the backcourt we wanted. I wish Monty was more transparent with us, but there’s no way him and the coaching staff can ignore how much better Ivey seems to be in the starting lineup. I wished we had Umude out there a bit more for the 4th.
i appreciate seeing a sliver of a silver lining amongst the idiocy that has been this season so far
until mid december I will keep looking out for those small things . and then I expect we will have closer to a full lineup and we start playing some catch up. maybe we don’t get to 30 wins this season but we absolutely need to show progress to 25+ wins
or maybe the long term silver lining is we don’t get to 25 wins and so Weaver is fired before absolutely taking a dump with our cap space . i don’t know what I prefer - I’m very nervous about Troy’s decision making, but would rather see the team as-is click as I think we are pretty fucked otherwise regardless of who our GM is
I liked watching sasser with our starting guards there was some great ball movement because he can handle the ball well and is a threat to score. Having more drive and kicks or just someone to create different angles instead of immediately passing it makes the offense better imo.
Also I don’t care about killian having a decent start to the season. The occasional game isn’t going to cut it. The only way he’s a positive if he has all good players around him then maybe he’s a ceiling raiser. But you’re right, in order to create easy looks for your team mates you need to be able to at least be some type of threat. He can’t even drive and create looks he just has that stupid mid range jumper he occasionally makes. I’m so done, a second overall and seventh overall pick can’t even play occasional bench minutes and have become complete negatives asset wise. Not even bench players on the team that Everyone is making fun of and where they had some opportunity’s
Allow me to rip into wisemen and this front office a bit. This front office whiffs on Donavan Mitchell for Luke kennard, trades him away for saddiq who had some value all for it to be absolutely nothing in wisemen. 2 failures. Weavers initial philosophy of tearing everything down without trying to get some scraps was stupid, and even though he wasn’t trying to start anew with bey, just shows poor asset management by him.
I came away thinking the process was good. Ivey is so important to this offense for the simple fact that in most cases he can get by his man and cause the defense to shift. Ausar is really the only other guy on the team with the potential to do that and we’re definitely not there yet with him.
Speaking of Ausar, it’s been bubbling up inside me and I haven’t wanted to say it because I think they’re good and have so much promise, but it feels like we’re going to have a hard time putting a positive offense out there with him and Duren on the floor at the same time. I’m very curious to see how that ends up playing out. Hopefully we can find some creative ways to get one on the short roll and the other in the dunker spot or even invert PnR and have Cade set the pick for Ausar and pop out. Their lack of spacing combined with Cade not being a top-tier athlete/finisher just has us fighting an uphill battle there.
If Bojan and Morris can get in here and just provide what they always have throughout their career I still don’t think we’re good but we can at least put something closely resembling a modern NBA scheme out there and at the very least will get us closer to being able to make conclusions on these young guys.