As a basic sms user, is RCS the reason my conversations now sometimes get flooded with messages like, “so-and-so loved this”?
Yup
If you’re on Android, the Textra app handles most of the emojis on messages without needing RCS. Sadly it still doesn’t work with reactions to images yet.
Looks like scamware, only available on Play Store, and it doesn’t look like it’s open-source. I wouldn’t go near that.
Why? You aren’t confortable with a random guy developing an app having access to your conversations or to your 2FA codes from your bank?
TBF I used it for a couple of years, tho I don’t anymore. It’s a good app. Didn’t get robbed or murdered.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! I’ve been busy, ok?!? Now if you could stop moving, I can’t aim!!
Textra was the go-to SMS app for quite a while in the enthusiast community. I don’t know what happened to it in the last few years though.
Textra claims Google is the reason they don’t have RCS support, something along the lines of locked out of the protocol?
RCS is not an open protocol. Never was. Otherwise every other SMS app would have already implemented it.
As a rule, I don’t use proprietary software unless I have to. So from my perspective it may as well not exist.
Ok
iMessages does that when it falls back to SMS.
Google Messages works around it by manually parsing the message and adding the emoji to the message like iMessage does.
So Apple caused the problem, and only Google Messages accommodates for it afaik.
In a proper RCS chat that won’t happen as Apple and Google will send the reactions natively.
I wish we could simply get everyone to switch to text-based messaging systems that don’t suck.
I miss when Jabber was more common.
Quik, an open source SMS app on FDroid, handles this already without needing a specific OSes RCS.
Unless there is something fundamental thats wrong with Quik and its development, I dont see why one would be excited about another vendor specific solution. Quik works on any degoogled android, not just Graphene.
I might try Quik again at some point, but to be honest I don’t care enough about sms messaging apps to go beyond the default one usually. I think I remember I stopped using Quik because at least at the time it didn’t have link previews, which is a hell of a lot more convenient to me than emoji react buttons.
Excellent! Since Signal removed SMS support there’s no trusted app supporting old SMS and encrypted messaging on one UI
SMS is not to be trusted because it is plain text and full of vulnerabilities.
I know. But I still need it whether I want it or not.
I have a limited data plan, so the only way I can communicate when I’m not on WiFi is by good ol’ fashioned text and call.
If you’re only sending text messages (no voice memos, stickers, photos or videos), you’re data plan should never be an issue when using Signal.
Data plan: if you use 1MiB by accident (even if it’s your phone doing stuff by itself when “mobile data” is set to “off”), you have to pay for an entire 2GiB “emergency” pack.
Oh you’re using a prepaid SIM?
I’m not willingly using any SIM anymore.
The chronophobia induced by realising ‘those damn kids texting all day’ has become ‘old fashioned SMS’ is more than I expected. I remember when that shit was 10p a go!
however SMS doesn’t need a data connection, just a mobile signal, so as an emergency backup type of communication it’s great
That old behavior of Signal confused what was encrypted and what isn’t.
It really didn’t. Blue messages encrypted, green not encrypted. There was nothing confusing there
I agree, it was a huge bummer that they removed it. Their reasoning didn’t quite make sense for me.
I think a huge selling point was that it wasn’t one more app to message with, you could just replace your SMS app and if your contacts also had Signal, your messages would be encrypted. Very simple proposition.
Aw helllllllll yeah 😎
A big hurdle with RCS was carrier adoption, at least in Asia.
I wonder about two things:
- Would Graphene team’s implementation be usable on other devices that are less fortunate to be supported by the OS?
- Would this be a drop-in replacement or would Graphene team need to work with carriers so that their implementation actually work?
On a tangential note, I would really like to read an in-depth analysis of how RCS had such a botched up implementation, which it has still to recover from almost a decade later.
The adoption is nowhere close to what it should have been, and instead it is now more associated with spam than actual communication. The Wikipedia entry does cover a lot of aspects, but it doesn’t explain how it went wrong.
biggest hurdle after that is that it still sucks ass compared to e2ee IM apps, and no one uses SMS nowadays anyway, so we barely benefit from pre existing SMS users that would be able to seemslessly swap to RCS because SMS users don’t really exist, it basically has to face against the network effect of Whatsapp, Facebook messager, iMessage and WeChat, just like Signal has too [face the network effect] while being less secure than Signal and having less features
Everyone i know uses SMS/RCS or iMessages.
I only use SMS to msg my mum and get 2FA stuff.
You’re worried about the network disadvantages of only reaching people who have cell phones?!
I think a source of confusion in this thread is that people in North America actually use SMS to communicate with other people, and in most of the rest of the world, that’s uncommon. I haven’t received an SMS from a human on my European phone number in over two years, and the last one was someone verifying my Signal safety number.
There’s a dominant messaging app in most other regions which everyone uses unless they’re a luddite or a free software absolutist. Whatsapp is the most common, but others are dominant in certain regions.
no one should feel forced to have a phone number
Not remotely what I said.
Is there a reason we can’t just all use Quik across the de-googled OSes? Vendor specific solutions only further the closed ecosystem problem.
I don’t see any mention that Quik works with RCS. Am I mistaken about this?
It does work with both iPhone and Android users from my testing. I ended up putting it on when I got tired of getting “person reacted <emoji> to <full quote of what I wrote>”.
Odd it isn’t explicitly called out.
The parsed and properly displayed reactions are a QUIK feature, but it does not mean RCS is being used. You can try to install e.g. Fossify Messages and you will see the “A reacted to B” messages again.
Also, this reaction parsing does not work for all languages.
Ah ok, so its not RCS support but rather working around the OS not suporting RCS. Did some reading yesterday and now understand that RCS needs some low level system support to work.
While that is a good SMS app (in fact, it’s the one I’m currently using), it does not support RKS.
QUIK handles bare SMS.
Oh shit. So, grapheneOS is reinventing the wheel, when we have one? Interesting.
We don’t.
Dude, go read a book or something.
Honestly the best news I’ve seen in a while. It was RCS that drove me back to stock android. I’ll be switching back to Graphene as soon as this lands.
Next thing they have to do is add support for realme, huawei and doogee phones or any phone running a certain version of google or having certain specs and letting users take the chance on installation and bricking. Rather than pixel phones only because this is shit not being able to use graphene.
Then tell those phones to meet their security standards.
Unlikely because they have very strict hardware requirements for security reasons. So far only Pixel phones had the required hardware. Motorola is planning to release some GrapheneOS phones in 2027, but they will be very expensive.
Except the 11.
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Good. Everything Google touches needs to be forked.
Fork Google
We keep trying, but the courts are ok with monopolies.
They suddenly care about monopolies whenever a major competitor threatens to shift the balance of the market by providing alternatives…
fork it right out the ass
Goggle!
Lougle! If you get that reference lol
Go fork yourself
The number of Europeans in here acting like What’s App, which might as well be Facebook Messenger, is some sort of high road is hilarious.
I work with a lot of European teams and they always make me use WhatsApp. I hate it.
The number of Eastern Europeans pretending Viber is everything is insane
Yeah I still don’t get why people use or promote WhatsApp. If anything, use Signal or even Telegram
Telegram are you kidding me?? Telegram is a thousand times worse than WhatsApp pal
Not even close lol. The sooner we stop using meta shit the better.
While I agree with you that Meta must die, saying that Telegram is any way better than WhatsApp is, I’m sorry to say, either delusion or extreme ignorance.
It’s not encrypted. At all. The company has full access to everything on it.
It’s also russian and actively used to spy on users by the russian FSB (FBI equivalent, kind of).
To be more accurate: Telegram is totally unecrypted by default, unless one chooses to enter a “secret chat”, in which case you use its proprietary encryption. As such its better suited for public group chats and not for anything that needs to critical privacy, but to say it has zero encryption options is not correct.
As for “Russian”, while its CEO was born in Russia, and made his cash to initially fund it from the Russian social media VK, he has lived outside of Russia for a decade now, and Telegram is head quartered in the United Arab Emirates, with servers installed globally.
It is, and he has, but if you’re following what’s going on in the RUvsUA war, you can see that the authorities are absolutely using Telegram to identify dissenters and leaks.
Hate to be supporting Telegram but I recall there also being some sort of Ukrainian Telegram bot meant to be used by Russian soldiers to safely give up and be taken to the other side, using the “share location” button. IDK how that’s meant to work now that you need Tor tunnels to browse fucking Telegram in Russia, though. Phone roaming or something? Point is, both sides are trying to use it for their advantage.
The inertia is real.
Nah, Signal or Threema
And Briar or Cwtch
I tried to switch over a group of friends and got rebuffed because one of them really likes Whatsapp’s transcription feature. Signal doesn’t offer it. Nobody else cared.
Telegram is worse than even Whatsapp, since it’s not even pretending to be end to end encrypted.
The real choice is signal or threema.
Or something equally secure and also decentralized like Briar or Cwtch.
I have thought this for years. Everyone slimes on Americans for using iMessage and asks who no WhatsApp? Same reason I’m not on facebook, don’t use a meta quest, and don’t use instagram.
WhatsApp does not commit the sin of not having cross platform support at all, it is genuinely the most pratical and easy to use proprietary IM solution besides the network effect
People will always trade privacy for ease of use.
While Whatsapp is not great, the problem with iMessage is that it is (was?) locked exclusively to the apple platform
Yeah, thats the main issue with imessage (and it still is) and if your switching from IOS to android, you have to start over on all of your messages unless if you figure out a way to back them up.
It’s not a good solution, but from a meme in c/selfhosting i learned that through the price of a used mac mini (about $120 at that time) you can selfhost iMessage on mac, and selfhost a 3rd party free software called Bluebubbles, which, as far as i can tell, uses Google and Cloudflare services to convey the iMessages to your Android phone.
I’m sure it is a privacy nightmare. But the shunning for not having iMessage from my own family was getting to me, real or imagined.
You’re not self-hosting iMessage. It’s just a bridge between your device and Apple’s iMessage network.
You are self hosting iMessage – you have a machine you own (mac mini) running the iMessage application 24-7, so you can access it on your own client (Android phone).
It’s self hosting a proprietary service with some middleware to access it on the device of your choosing.
That is just so overly complicated, i would rather just start them over🤣🤣
I’ve never had a problem starting over. Used to custom ROM hope back in the day and start with a fresh Android release on the cyanogenmod nightly releases.
There is nothing in my iMessage that I would be sad to lose moving to Android.
What do you mean exactly start over? If you don’t have iMessage, you can’t talk to other people with iMessage.
Sure but if you want it to work wirhbpbine number you have to have a phone talk about every seven days.
You can’t use Signal or Telegram because your contacts are on WhatsApp, but yes WhatsApp might as well be called Facebook Messenger
Your contacts weren’t always on WhatsApp, stop using it and if they want to talk to you enough they’ll join a better platform. Maybe just keep sending them links every day about how trash WhatsApp and Meta are until they get the point lmao
Already did that, and after two years I’m back on WhatsApp. Everytime you do something at least a bit social it will be a WhatsApp group, you can refuse of course, but believe me, unless it’s really close friends no one is going to put the extra effort to reach you.
2 weeks now on Graphene. This is what a phone OS should be, simple, boring, juste the basics without a shit-ton of bloatware and spying crap.
This is what a phone OS should be
Quite literally how my wife puts it. She’s been using Graphene on a Pixel 9 Pro XL for a few months now. Even with the hurdles of moving to an entirely different platform and the weirdness that comes with the extra security (not playing nice with some services), she vastly prefers it over her previous Apple stuff, to the point she wants me to wipe MacOS off of her iMac and install Linux.
This has been available since forever, though. Cyanogenmod/LineageOS was the biggest. Oneplus followed along and I love my OP15, though that’s coming to a bitter end
Cyanogenmod and LineageOS have always felt like hacks upon hacks and always had something broken. While I have my gripes with GOS it’s truly the first time since I have had a custom ROM that just works through and through.
My pixel 7 broke but am still getting a OP15 becasue I can’t stand google shit anymore, even paid an $150 for it. I figure the hardware isnt going to get better and OP15 is probably the best its gonna get for a few years anyways.
Insane that google can sell such an inferior product for the same or greater price.
So sad that OP15 wont get a reboot. These phones are the last bit of the pre-surveillance era.
I have high hopes for the new Motorola line. They also worked with Graphene to become even more compliant than Pixels.
Pixel 11 made itself less compliant than its predecessor so GrapheneOS won’t support it.
So sad that OP15 wont get a reboot.
Why would it? It just came out less than a year ago.
I meant a new release, like op16 or something.
Lineage pales in comparison to what cyanogenmod was
Having used both extensively, what? I’ve seen very little difference between the two, and if anything Lineage has become more refined and stable compared to Cyanogen over the years.
The CM theme manager alone was leagues better than anything Lineage is doing these days. CM enabled things like 720p recording on Nexus One, before the stock camera. Hacked in multitouch on devices that didn’t properly support it. Features like the camera flashlight we take for granted today. The notification shade quick menus. Hell the majority of the android UI/UX was pioneered on Cyanogenmod, it’s actually insane how much customizability and custom features that were available. Then it got gobbled up by AOSP and/or PixelOS and dumbed down for end users. Remember touchwiz? There’s a reason Cyanogen got picked up by Samsung. Their android builds are actually good now. To the point that I prefer a lot of their UX flows over stock. If you told me that in 2013 I would have laughed in your face.
I daily drove Lineage for 2 years and honestly couldn’t name a single feature it provided me other than root access and failing Google’s play integrity checks + breaking my tap to pay.
It kind of sounds like you looked up a wikipedia article about Cyanogenmod looking for any claimed feature to try to make it sound like it’s better. Neverminding how dubious and revisionist your claims are (apps were doing camera flashlight long before Cyan, and using any of them was a bad idea because they’d burn the light out, for instance).
None of that matters, because what it comes down to is that Cyanogenmod doesn’t exist anymore. It was abandoned, and at least Lineage is something I can use now. It’s one of the few options still around that allows me some relative piece of mind knowing my devices are free of spyware, and it continues getting ported to more devices than pretty much any other Android based system.
Also, I have a Samsung phone. Their UX sucks, way too bloated and messy.
These are literally just features that I used and went out of my way to seek out lmao. I still have my Nexus One and the camera LED is still working. Glad you think my 15 year old memories are encyclopedic though
Cyanogen had nothing to do with why Samsung’s interface improved and why OneUI is good now. He was at Samsung for less than two years and it was during the TouchWiz era. He left Samsung and almost immediately trashed TouchWiz on the S4. I loved CyanogenMod, but OneUI (and Samsung Experience before it) was forced by the competition’s Android skins getting better, not custom ROMs. So, I agree with everything else you said though.
Lineage was forked from the remains of CM. Without Lineage, CM would have died and faded from memory already.
Lol, lineage did nothing to stop that
Ok?
Sure. OxygenOS was also forked from Cyanogen, but OnePlus ended up adding their own UI and (opt-in) apps.
Where will you go after 1+?
I’m considering the new Motorola line, but I have no clue
I hope it’s functionally installable on other versions of android
Nah, it would be insecure (still more secure than defaults and way too secure for most users)
I read installable and instable, I was like 🫠
I hope it can finally bring this piece of shit messaging protocol to Linux phones so my friends and family know when I read a message
Just move them to signal :)
i can barely get them to move off of telegram 🥀️
My immediate family is on signal, and has been for a while, my parents and my sibling are now on signal which is nice!
I have a few others I communicate with often I wish I could get them over because I hate using sms, even rcs.
You can always use Waydroid
If you phone is X:
https://github.com/1999AZZAR/use-waydroid-on-x11#installing-a-nested-wayland-compositor
you do realise that rcs only works on unrooted stock google-certified android with a locked bootloader? that’t the whole reason grapheneos is making their own FOSS implementation
rcs only works on unrooted stock google-certified android with a locked bootloader
Uh no? It literally works on GrapheneOS. https://grapheneos.org/usage#rcs
I think you’re confusing this with Google Pay, which only works on Google-certified systems.
Graphene allows a locked bootloader. That’s part of why it works.
The waydroid devs said not to use way droid for anything security related. This is bad advice.
I’m not seeing that anywhere, got a link?
Search their github issues for “security”
Everything they make is open source, so even if they don’t officially support it, someone else will probably fork it and upload it somewhere.
I’m sure it will install, but if it needs some system level thing it won’t actually work. It depends how they implement it.
Literally everyone should just use Signal. I really don’t understand why we all don’t.
- Dropping SMS support made sense from a security standpoint but slaughtered adoption
- When the central server eshittifies, we’ll all have to switch again.
I don’t even understand how dropping sms support improved security, was it the code required for making it work (I know sms is fairly little on android and remember mms is a pain in the ass) or just because “confusion” about having insecure and secure communications right next to each other?
The latter. I think it was a huge mistake. Now the phone numbers just worsen privacy.
Signal is pretty great and I use it at least a little myself, but it’s not necessarily perfect. The big elephant that’s always been in the room is its dependence on one backend and the fact they’re based in the US.
Different threat models call for different approaches, and every option has tradeoffs.
Because Signal requires a phone number.
But so does SMS, so signal is just a straight upgrade as an alternative.
Because people stick with the default. There was a time people I know would try different messaging apps but after hangouts got canceled nobody wants to bother.
Still a corp and you can’t host it right? Wouldn’t it be better if everyone used Matrix for all communication
Because signal dropped SMS support.
Because Signal 1) doesn’t ship as default, and 2) requires a login process.
You’ve already lost the majority of the general public with the former. On top of that, the Venn diagram of “people who go through with logging in” and “people who already know about Signal” has significant overlap.
Used to shill XMPP but everyone should use Tox at this point ngl.
- No registration
- No phone number
- It’s impossible to send anything unencrypted
downside: Sharing IDs is annoying (QR code if you are on mobile? idk haven’t tried)
updownsides:
- It does not concern itself with backlog storage (unsent messages sit until at least one device of both parties are online)
- It does not concern itself with file storage (sent - poof, gone)
But the same is true for WhatsApp…
You see, the problem is that whatsapp came very early, when it released it wasn’t shit and it provided free messages which in many european countries wasn’t a thing yet, everyone hopped on it and used it as main communication platform, this created a big ass network effect that is nearly unescapeable, even today i can’t escape from it because i am the only idiot who uses Signal and Matrix and no one wants to leave whatsapp because they already have an account and all their contacts
Was true (except for trustworthy encryption). Then network effects took over and peer pressure did the work.
It could happen again in a good way this time, but the resistance will be stiff.
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I use Signal via Molly and as @lka1988@sh.itjust.works points out, there’s friction in getting users to on to it. But also the UX isn’t even as good as WhatsApp let alone Telegram.
I used signal offical app and honestly it has a good UI and UX, what does it lack? What seems bad? I don’t understand
Telegram’s UI fucking blows. I use Telegram on occasion, but only to follow a handful of software projects that inexplicably only distribute release notes via Telegram 🫥
Signal’s UI is exactly as one would expect. Open it and you have a list of chats. Tap a chat and it opens. Done.
Telegram has been winning awards for their UI since inception. WhatsApp has basically mimicked it. Signal has gone in its own direction which suits 40 year old geeks who use Lemmy, but the actual masses…
Come on, can we at least pretend to have the self-awareness to know what we like isn’t conducive to how the masses use these apps.
It’s like how people on Reddit use to try and say that front facing cameras were useless and so they want small phones without them. 😮💨
I’m honestly confused as to what UI differences people care about between Signal, Telegram, and Whatsapp. All three have a list of chats as the main view, with a search field or button, and a chat screen with prior messages on top and an input field at the bottom.
I do not pretend to be a UX designer and would appreciate an explanation.
what ui? there is a namelist, a call icon, a message icon. what in the hell do you need?
one thing missing is support for Android Tablets, its pissing my GF off on her Samsung Tablet and yet it works for my mother on her ipad ffs
That’s a legitimate concern. However, the Android tablet market is a fraction of a slice of the pie. Meanwhile, iPads are the defacto “standard tablet”. Even my little kids just call their Kindles “iPads”. I don’t even bother correcting them, because honestly who fucking cares? At this point, “iPad” just means “tablet”.
For those who got too excited by the title: read the original messages from the GrapheneOS. RCS de-facto is not an open technology, there’s a massive amount of work and multiple steps are needed to get anywhere near the proper independent implementation. It’s gonna be amazing if the GrapheneOS team pulls it off, but don’t get too excited about the release dates and its availability for other systems (e.g. Linux).
To be honest, I’d rather they use the effort elsewhere (as a very happy gOS user). The number of people on gOS who wouldn’t prefer Signal (without phone number rego) / Threema etc. is probably vanishingly small, but that takes going up against the incumbents with heavy resistance.
There’s only so many irons you can keep in the fire. That said, gOS devs (sans drama) are freaking awesome, and seems to keep growing in number, if they can pull it off it will be a true coup.
That’s true on one hand, but on the other there are also family and friends with who we still want/need to communicate via the “normies” protocols, and it’s better to do it without explicit spyware on your phone (aka Play Services or Whatsapp). So yeah, it’s an absolutely ungrateful work what they’re doing, but huge thanks to them for that.
yooo! while i wait for mobile linux to be realistic for my device this is a win
Hopefully this work is able to be used to help further that as well
This project seems to be promising for providing a true mobile Linux experience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otMoX0-PYp8
Wow. I had not heard of this device until now! Seems to have a passionate team behind it. I will definitely be watching this one. Thanks for sharing!
