Well, I kind of like Bethesda formula so I should be Bethesdas target. Played them since old Arena, through Morrowind to Fallout 3. Stopped there because Fallout 4 seemed like more of the same with less rpg and I did not have HW capable of Skyrim at the time.
Thinking about it I liked Morrowind the most. And the thing I liked the most about it was exploration and discovering the world, that is big, well done, believable and also changes in every region so there aren’t two places that would look alike.
I haven’t played Starfield, but I believe it’s going to miss the exploration part of the formula. Sure, there will be different biomes on different planets, but that’s not the same. I loved how I travelled the world and was amazed by every new scenery that emerged behind mountain ridge. Leaving swamp to get to volcanic plague storm lands. Then travel through beautiful lake district to emerge on vast grass planes… I fear Starfield will be like jumping through this with fast travel.
Bro you skipped New Vegas???
It’s not “real” Bethesda. Have it installed right nowand it’s pretty damn good. But not really in Bethesda way.
And the thing I liked the most about it was exploration and discovering the world, that is big, well done, believable and also changes in every region so there aren’t two places that would look alike.
… and Morrowind achieved that with an island you could chuck a frisbee across, using brown and more brown, and about six minutes of voice acting.
Bethesda’s peak moment, no jokes.
Have you still not played Skyrim?
Nope. Will probably check it sooner or later, at least I hope.
I had no idea that the game is that bad. Now I really have no interest in playing it anymore.
I mean for me, I just got bored. It wasn’t terrible, but I had no drive to pick it up again after 40 hours.
I’m sure too people will be like “oh but you played 40 hours! It can’t be that bad” but the first 10-15 are misery from a gameplay perspective, like you’re just trying to level up to get more carrying capacity and get more combat options.
There’s too many basic things locked behind perk points before you can even begin doing whatever it is. Like, I spent most of a day to grind to get to be able to buy and fly a bigger ship only to then not be able to put any extra crew on the ship because that is also a perk.
That’s…not really true. First, you can get to class C ships at level 4 out of 300+ if you really want to. Second, you can build some pretty decent-sized class A ships.
Honestly, is this something you’ve just always hated about Bethesda games, because everything about that is true to a greater extent in Elder Scrolls and Fallout games as well.
Some of it’s an opinion but nothing I said isn’t true. Sure, if I started the game with the goal of flying class C ships I could get there by level 4, but I didn’t. I played the game for a time doing other things and then came to a point where I saw an NPC selling a ship I wanted. So I grinded to get the money, saw that I needed to rank up piloting but I didn’t have any points. So I needed to level up 3 times and I needed to kill a few dozen ships. So I grinded that out and bought the ship which, with getting the money, took me the better part of a day.
Then, after I bought that ship and got the ability to fly it I couldn’t add any additional crew compared to my starting ship because that is locked behind a different perk, which would mean 4 more levels (which take time now), and many more destroyed ships with X number of crew on board, to get the most crew on my ship; EXCEPT that it’s a master tier perk so I would first have to sink many more points into that tree to even get there. So I guess screw whatever build I was going for, if I want more crew I have to go deep into the Social tree.
Take stealth for example. To even get a stealth meter I have to drop a point into stealth. To get a meter that is slightly better and on par with the default stealth meter in their other games I need to put in another point. Want to pickpocket an enemy? Takes a point to even unlock the ability. Want to even use a boost pack? Point.
It’s fine to unlock abilities through the trees, there’s more of these that I didn’t mention that I’m fine with, but this does not compare with their previous games. In Skyrim, if I want to pickpocket I just try to do it. It sucks for a while but it levels up and gets better by doing it. I don’t need to go grind enemies to level up so that I can get a little better at pickpocketing. If I want to be stealthy I just need to sneak around to work on leveling up the skill and I get the UI from the beginning. If I want to work on the heavy armor skill I don’t first have to get through light armor.
Well, it seems contradictory to me and I’m just picking at that. If you care about class C ships, it’s super-easy to unlock (compared to some of the skills in FO4’s base builder). If you don’t, the lack will never matter. You can easily take the Razorleaf through the entire game with few (if any) modifications.
So I grinded to get the money, saw that I needed to rank up piloting but I didn’t have any points. So I needed to level up 3 times and I needed to kill a few dozen ships.
I do the same in Skyrim when I want the Meteor spell :)
after I bought that ship and got the ability to fly it I couldn’t add any additional crew compared to my starting ship because that is locked behind a different perk
…so? Why exactly did you want to add more crew? I’m having trouble grokking this. More crew is kinda a win-more feature and down that page for a reason.
Take stealth for example. To even get a stealth meter I have to drop a point into stealth
Pretty typical.
To get a meter that is slightly better and on par with the default stealth meter in their other games I need to put in another point
This blew my mind, but if you’re somewhere you can breathe and take off the space suit, your stealth SKYROCKETs. Walking around stealthily in a heavy space suit is tough.
Want to even use a boost pack? Point.
This one is the first one I sorta agree with. I understand thematically why there would be skill involved. But I’ll give you this one. That’s just not enough to sour me on an epic game like Starfield.
Take stealth for example. To even get a stealth meter I have to drop a point into stealth
Pretty typical.
I disagree here. It’s a UI element that is often there by default in other games from Bethesda. It’s the little eye in Skyrim, it’s the hidden/caution/danger bar in fallout 4.
This blew my mind, but if you’re somewhere you can breathe and take off the space suit, your stealth SKYROCKETs. Walking around stealthily in a heavy space suit is tough.
You know I did read that and I think that’s a neat touch, i wish it was explained somewhere in game (if it was I missed it) but it makes sense. I was referring to the UI again, where you upgrade the stealth meter itself slightly.
…so? Why exactly did you want to add more crew? I’m having trouble grokking this. More crew is kinda a win-more feature and down that page for a reason.
I bought a ship with 7 chairs, why can’t 7 people sit in it. I understand to a point that it could be for balancing the game, but to me getting the ship with 7 slots should be balancing enough.
Looking back at the 50 hours I spent on it, I have to contextualize how much of it wasn’t spent having fun. How many of those hours did I spend building an S-class ship and outposts with 4+ materials before I discovered that all of that was utterly worthless due to the main questline destroying everything? Building the ship certainly wasn’t fun. Having a planet on my screen for three hours at a time while I scout for an outpost one pixel at a time was miserable. The point of those was that the reward would be worth it, but then during the main questline it all gets erased and you have to push the stone back up the hill again.
Contrast that with the game I spent the most time on this year: Hi-Fi Rush. It took me 80 hours to FC that game, and I was having a blast almost the entire way through! The tower was a bitch and a half before I learned the meta, beating Mimosa without taking damage took a good two dozen tries, but you know what Hi-Fi Rush has that Starfield doesn’t? Exciting gameplay. A soundtrack. A story worth paying any attention to. Likeable characters. The Prodigy. Even though replaying every level on every difficulty setting is tedious as all hell, the process of doing it was still fun, and I can still open the game up and admire the Wall. I can’t open up my Starfield file and admire my fully customized ship, the Death of Shame. It was erased along with every outpost and every relationship with every NPC.
I mean, at the 1-hour mark I was starting with space piracy and having a blast.
The first 10-15 are misery if you follow the breadcrumb trail and don’t leave it. But the same is (more) true of Skyrim.
Yeah same here. Around the 40 hour mark. I found I moved onto something else. People spending time and resources on building big and different ship designs and building a base seemed pointless to me given the gameplay loop.
I was even kind of interested, but then I got further in the main quest and figured out what the ending is…
Then I felt like there was no point to anything I did.
It’s annoying because a lot of people say it’s no different to starting a new save file in any other game, but no other game encourages you to spend tens of hours on tedious pointing and clicking just to throw it away. Fallout 4’s outpost system wasn’t designed with the intention of deleting your settlements at any point in the story.
but no other game encourages you to spend tens of hours on tedious pointing and clicking just to throw it away
I don’t really understand the NG+ complaints. The game warns several times in several ways you before you do it, and it is absolutely not necessary to enjoy the game. And people who know the reasons you’d want to NG+ because they read spoilers? They ALSO know that they’re going to lose the previous playthrough well before they’ve gotten too deep into outpost design.
The most common Bethesda play pattern is to reach a point your’e so powerful you’re “just done”, so you go beat the game. You take a break, and come back to NG. The number of people who maintain all the FO4 settlements for hundreds of hours are quite rare. NG+ exists to give people of that most common play pattern the option to start over again and extra content they’ll enjoy.
Starfield is technically bigger than Skyrim before accounting for NG+. So why punish them for a new feature that rewards what most gamers want to do?
I feel like this is a “this is why we can’t have nice things” scenario. I have been wanting a fun NG+ mechanism in a Bethesda game for 15-20 years. I hate saying goodbye to my character, but I love rising through the ranks and completing major story quests in different ways.
Are you a bethesda dev? Because its like you only understand what the maybe potential intent was of the design, while being completely blind to the massive pile of neon feedback saying that the design failed to achieve the intent.
Are you a bethesda dev?
No. I like owning a home so I opted against gamedev :)
completely blind to the massive pile of neon feedback saying that the design failed to achieve the intent
I mean, it’s largely a success to me playing the game. Am I not allowed to enjoy it or struggle to understand why “Game A” might be strictly worse than “Game A plus feature B that many players really wanted”?
The game warns several times in several ways you before you do it, and it is absolutely not necessary to enjoy the game. And people who know the reasons you’d want to NG+ because they read spoilers? They ALSO know that they’re going to lose the previous playthrough well before they’ve gotten too deep into outpost design.
When a dev says that the game doesn’t really “start” until you finish the main story, I feel like that means it is actually necessary to enjoy the game as they designed it. The game was designed with this form of NG+ from the very beginning. It’s a bit like saying you can stop playing Nier: Automata after 2B’s story. Sure, you can, but it’s super not what the devs intended. Not engaging with NG+ is an option the same way quitting MW2 before No Russian is an option.
And for people who know the reasons you want to NG+, that causes a conflict. If I know from the start that I’m going to be ditching this universe, I’m not going to be invested in what it has to offer. When I reach the end of the game, _____'s death wasn’t a big emotional moment because I never spent the time to develop a relationship with them.
NG+ has been sorely needed in Bethesda games for a long time, but saying this is what we’ve been asking for is like saying FO76 was the multiplayer Fallout experience we were asking for.
40h is where I gave up, too. I would stopped much sooner, because everything feels like the worst kind of MMO grind… but folks kept telling me “keep going, it gets better!”
Narrator: It never gets better.
In fact, it gets worse. As part of the main storyline, everything you’ve done is erased. It is literally not worth your time to engage with the systems in the game, because everything gets reset. The only thing the main story encourages you to spend time on is the worst game mechanic in anything outside of F.A.T.A.L.
There’s this weird anti-hype going on. Realistically, for people not loving it, it’s defensibly a 7 or so. There’s PLENTY of us who put it a lot closer to a 10.
It’s a lot of things, but it’s definitely not a “bad” game.
Fair enough but it does sound very repetitive and grindy. Would you disagree?
Maybe it is not bad but it definitely didn’t deliver what was promised. I know, I know, how could I expect that from Todd?
Fair enough but it does sound very repetitive and grindy. Would you disagree?
How experienced are you with Bethesda games post-1995 or so? They all have the same grind-factor. The game is tuned so you can play and win with zero grind, but it has these “treadmill” mechanics that you can either embrace or skip.
If you want to max out your perks at level 328, it’s absurdly grindy. But you can beat the game around level 30 or so. If for some reason you want to max out a skill/perk you don’t really use, it’s a bit grindy. But if you use the skills as you get them and get the skills you’ll use, you unlock their levelups asically for free.
Maybe it is not bad but it definitely didn’t deliver what was promised
I hear this again, and again, and again, and again. But nobody has yet to cite one promise Bethesda objective broke with Starfield. You say “how could I expect that from Todd”? That means you know what kind of games Bethesda releases. And they promised a Bethesda game in space. And they delivered a Bethesda game in space.
I underestand people who hate Bethesda games. You can toss a pebble and hit one of them. But I really don’t understand the level of toxicity this time around. I actually almost didn’t buy Starfield, and boy am I pissed because it was a lot better than I expected.
Keep in mind that I haven’t played Starfield despite getting excited by the hype, and then tempering my expectations after remembering getting burned by the hype and purchase of the Collector’s Edition of Fallout 76. My opinions are more of a collective skepticism bolstered by post-hype reactions. The unfortunate reality of the game is that it is a “Bethesda game” with a lot of the magic stripped out.
The promise of 1000 planets rings pretty hollow when a vast majority of them are desolate chucks of rock, and procedural generation is just an exceedingly lazy way to achieve a bullet point on the hype sheet. The only reason I know it’s 1000 planets is because Todd would not shut up about it like it was some type of huge achievement.
The fun of “discovery by exploration” – going to continue on a quest and getting stopped by a dozen different interesting things along the way – is completely broken by “fast travel”. A “Bethesda game” that requires you to skip a lot of the in-between and not lose focus on a singular objective does not feel like a “Bethesda game” to me.
Some of the Bethesda charm comes from the jank of the 20-year-old Frankenstein “not Gamebryo” engine their games are built on. We give them a pass on a lot of this because it can add to the fun. Unfortunately, they spent a lot of time hyping their pride on being their “least buggy” game on release. For a game that cooked as long as Starfield did, they should’ve spent that time rebuilding something modern from the ground up instead of cramming their ambition into their aging platform. Given the time it took, this may be my biggest disappointment.
The unfortunate reality of the game is that it is a “Bethesda game” with a lot of the magic stripped out.
Interesting. I don’t find “Bethesda game” to be unfortunate, and I don’t agree that a lot of the magic is stripped out. No, we do not get the Iconic fallout Vault Boy attitude, but tES never managed to brand itself like that anyway. What “magic” should I be seeing missing from Starfield? It seems pretty magical to me. I’m REALLY holding my breath for a Ve’ruun expansion, maybe some “Legacy of the Starborn” style expansion that leans into the Artifacts and the cycle. And I KNOW space stations are coming (data leaks confirmed there’s code for them), and I’m so excited for when they finally do.
The promise of 1000 planets rings pretty hollow when a vast majority of them are desolate chucks of rock, and procedural generation is just an exceedingly lazy way to achieve a bullet point on the hype sheet.
But isn’t that what you’d expect? What do people expect from this? 1000 full-size planets all lovingly hand-crafted on a $1T budget? Micro-planets like some other games did? Taking a step back, remember that Starfield has more hand-crafted content than Skyrim… THEN adds 1000 planets to explore so you have a Daggerfall-like procedural exploration game on top of it. Because a lot of us missed procedural exploration.
The fun of “discovery by exploration” – going to continue on a quest and getting stopped by a dozen different interesting things along the way – is completely broken by “fast travel”. A “Bethesda game” that requires you to skip a lot of the in-between and not lose focus on a singular objective does not feel like a “Bethesda game” to me.
Are you that guy who does no-fast-travel runs in Skyrim? Quite literally, Starfield feels like the exact same amount of fast-travel as any tES game to me. FT to this city, kill this person. FT back, report what you did. FT to this area, and go find a dungeon.
Unfortunately, they spent a lot of time hyping their pride on being their “least buggy” game on release
For the record, that’s true. Starfield was largely downright stable from day 1.
they should’ve spent that time rebuilding something modern from the ground up instead of cramming their ambition into their aging platform
“Should” is a hard point. They’re clearly trying to stay Iconic Bethesda. As far as I’ve heard, Creation Engine 2 is largely a from-scratch engine. The thing is, the goal was for it to still work like a Bethesda game. Largely that goal succeeded. Many of us were craving Exactly Skyrim in Space for 10-15 years now. It’s weird how many people are complaining after they gave us what we asked for.
I’m IT. I get it. Sometimes you asks for things you don’t really want and it’s my job to say “no” to you. But I actually really wanted Skyrim in space!!!
Life is too short to play 7’s.
I would say life is too short to play games you don’t enjoy. The 1-10 scale is trying to measure overall quality, not enjoyability to an individual.
I hate Witcher 3. Its 92 on metacritic doesn’t mean I have to force myself to play it more than I already have. But there’s a line after which I usually will not touch a game because its objective failings make it highly unlikely I will enjoy it. Starfield’s 83 in metacritic (not sure why the toxicity hasn’t dragged it down more yet, perhaps because it’s an echo chamber) puts it cleanly in a “give it a chance” level for me.
I loved it. The reality of this game is so distorted. Yes, it’s far from perfect. But in no way is it bad. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, and not everyone will enjoy it. But so many people would have you believe it’s an objectively bad game, and it isn’t.
I mean overall. I agree that parts of it are designed terribly.
It just seems terribly mediocre for a AAA game this decade. Definitely not worth $70, and not something to rush out and play. Maybe something we can enjoy a few years from now with proper updates, maybe some fixes mods.
It really isn’t, which is funny. It does many things far better than Skyrim or Fallout 4, such as quest design and role playing, it just can’t rely on fantastic lore written by people that either no longer work for the company or never did. Now that they are given the opportunity to be wholly original, the issues they’ve been having ever since Morrowind are shown at full force.
Interesting. As I haven’t played the game, I have to rely on other opinions. Have you seen the video? He gave examples of quests that were in the game. Simple fetch quests (go to A, return to B, sometimes go back to A). They seemed to be designed in a very uninspiring way. Combined with the fact that you basically have to fast travel everywhere there’s little to catch your attention during such quests. In Skyrim, for example, you might stumble across a cave or some ruins. To me, those are the really enjoyable moments. You just explore and start to wonder what you might find next. Is that even possible in Starfield to a similar degree? Because without that im not sure I can enjoy a Bethesda game. It’s not a good shooter, the mechanics are wonky and the UI sucks. Would you disagree?
Fallout 4 was even worse, that’s kind of a point I raise, that Bethesda has been riding the coattails of better lore. There are dumb fetch quests in every Bethesda game.
Hot take: Starfield isn’t “dated,” it’s actually a much better RPG than anything they’ve made since Morrowind. However, because they can’t rely on the world building and writing of people who have either left the company or worked for a different company they acquired the IP for, Starfield has highlighted just how bad Bethesda game design and writing truly is when done in a wholly original manner.
It’s still going to be a modder paradise.
Two decades.
Daggerfall was way, way, way ahead of its time… but when Vijay, Peterson, & LeFay left Bethesda it was all downhill. Morrowind was a pale shadow of Daggerfall, and it only went downhill from there as each release stripped back progressively more and more of Elder Scroll’s ambition and personality. Who was responsible for all this anti-ambitious anti-progress? Todd Howard.
Morrowind has never been a pale shadow of Daggerfall. It’s just another take on the RPG genre, and a masterful one.
Of course, it’s not a RPG sandbox like Daggerfall was and that might put off the early Elder Scrolls fans, but it’s superior to its big brother on numerous accounts : story lines, lore, immersion, quests, etc.
Morrowind is a handcrafted marvel with manually placed details everywhere that make the game fascinating and fun to explore, unlike Daggerfall which was big, but repetitive due to its procedural system.
For some reason, Elder Scrolls is cursed. EVERY Elder Scrolls game that comes out (except Daggerfall) has a massive number of detractors about some facet of it that is “a pale shadow” of the previous.
I was around when people treated Morrowind like they are treating Starfield now. Then Oblivion had a much smaller complaint-base, but it revolved around the “disappointing lack of immersion” because Morrowind was such an opinionated game. Then Skyrim comes out and “it’s like they put Training Wheels on Oblivion”.
Starfield is just suffering from the same Elder Scrolls curse (but in space). To me, Starfield is a great game that might not be for everyone, but that some of those walking away from it are being told they don’t like it.
And it’s a bit of a problem. There’s not much to change. The story is deep, so they can’t add more story like NMS did. It’s the most stable Bethesda game ever, so it’s not about building stability. The gameplay mechanics are reasonable, so it’s not about adding new systems. Bethesda might well be screwed this time - because there’s nothing to change.
Daggerfall had some basic guiding principles that have been slowly stripped away by every new release…
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It was unapologetically grimdark. The lore was dark, sinister, and scary… very Robert E Howard meets Lovecraft.
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It was obsessed with simulation. They wanted a world that functioned logically… hour to hour, day to day, season to season, character to character, and as seamlessly as possible.
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It strove for tabletop-level freedom without limits. You could climb, sneak, swim… across rooftops, in streets, in dungeons… there were no barriers whatsoever.
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It reinforced that decisions have consequences, with multiple paths if you followed the main story.
With Morrowind, they killed the grimdark and gutted the lore. They replaced the existential dread of the lore with “weirdness”. They took the mature, unflinching tone out behind the shed… replacing it with T-rated YA content. Oblivion finally completed the transition from grimdark to sterile high fantasy. This is especially heinous because the Elder Scrolls Bible laid out the franchise from Daggerfall through Oblivion, and Oblivion was supposed to be the final, the darkest, most oppressive game in the series, being literally about the end of the world.
While Morrowind strove to preserve some of the simulation, the grand multi-season scope pared this back somewhat. From there, it never evolved or advanced at all, with each new game using the same minimal, basic simulation.
The tabletop level freedom was completely axed as a guiding principle. Instead, the gameplay became much more gamey. No longer would you sink if you tried to swim while carrying too much weight, climbing has been completely non-existent, dungeoneering mechanics - and dungeoneering as a major gameplay loop - were removed en masse… and all while the seamless open world has had more and more seams - loading zones, invisible walls, etc - added.
And finally, all consequences were removed as basic principles. You could join any and all guilds or factions, your choices had no ramifications or outcomes or branching paths… there was not so much as an attempt to maintain an illusion of impact on the story or simulation.
These are the things people are talking about when they complain about each new TES game being lesser than the one before. And worst of all, they took all this withering away of ambition and applied it to Fallout, gutting the IP’s very soul… and nobody really noticed this trend until Starfield, because it was a new IP that was less prone to being viewed through rose-tinted nostalgia.
Every Bethesda game that comes out (not just TES) is worse than the previous. Objectively. Because Todd Howard has removed every shred of fearless ambition from the company.
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I actually heard recently that morrowind used some procedural tech in the generation of it’s world. They just picked the generation to go with and built on top of it rather than handcrafting from scratch. Which is what starfield should’ve done to at least a handful of planets that are off significance.
Preach. Daggerfall was the first PC game I got on release. It was the buggiest game I have ever played, and I loved it. Morrowind was such a shock in size and complexity reduction that it took me a while to like it. In retrospect, especially knowing how the following games went, it was great, cliffracers aside.
See, this is what I’m talking about. We have entire generations of people parroting this nonsense because they started with Morrowind and never actually played Daggerfall. It’s incredibly sad.
‘I’m idolizing my childhood so you must be too’ is not productive, to put it lightly. Daggerfall has a comically large empty world full of nearly-identical comically large empty towns. It sends you to dungeons that are hideously complex, which is a nice change of pace, but not exactly great to play through. Dialog is a lot more freeform, for better and for worse, and I could at least allow that dialog gets streamlined more harshly in every game.
Look: Daggerfall was ambitious. Its reach exceeded its grasp, by a lot - but it fuckin’ tried. That’s admirable, and something to strive for now that knowledge and technology have advanced so far. But it doesn’t make a jank relic with sink-or-swim gameplay the bestest thing evar. It certainly doesn’t make the homogeneous medieval aesthetic have more personality than mushroom castles, meteorite prisons, and a crab-dome city.
I didn’t start with Morrowind but Oblivion so you can’t blame nostalgia for my opinion, and I have spent around 50-100h on Daggerfall. Now that your point is invalid, do you want to try something else?
Todd Howard more like Todd Coward
Is their game design dated? What other RPG has mechanics beyond “run up to NPC, talk to NPC, receive quest from NPC, perform quest for NPC, return to NPC and get reward”?
I 100% agree that the Creation Engine is hot garbage, but are any other RPGs with cleaner newer engines actually innovating RPG mechanics?
I mean, that’s a quest at it’s core but a good game works it into a narrative and makes it blend. Ideally making all 6 steps anything but tedious. Ideally interesting and fun, but at all times avoiding tedious like the plague.
Best example I’ve seen is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4ADco41g9s&ab_channel=Nathidraws
Two identical "perform quest for NPC"s, which is your step 4. Negotiate for a thing in a briefcase from somebody who probably will double cross you.
Which one is more tedious? Now combine a 4 minute run in a barren wasteland in your steps 1 and 6…
A few other things that Cyberpunk did, There are several ways to handle that mission, those several options can cause 3 major shifts in that faction. Which affect other missions later on, indeed any time you deal with the maelstrom gang.
Cyberpunk had a lot of flaws but, they’re at least innovating. I’ve never been in a legit standoff like that in a game. It’s always been in a static looping animation at 8 paces.
Maybe you’ve heard of a little indie gem by the name of Baldur’s Gate 3?
Although personally I’d take more umbrage with the writing, dialogue, voice acting, and lack of mocap performance over the actual gameplay mechanics.
Bethesda struck gold with Skyrim, but I don’t think they’ve moved past it.
What I’m saying is that beyond the clunkiness of the CE, I don’t find the flow of gameplay in Skyrim or Fallout New Vegas to be any different than most RPGs, which is to say it’s not in my top 5 criticisms of Bethesda. What they did with Starfield looks kinda boring to me so I’m respectfully passing on it.
I’ve yet to play BG3, but it’s absolutely on my horizon. Just picked up DOS2 and gonna give that a go first.
I’ve played Starfield for 30 hours and I’ve played about 10 hours now of BG3.
The difference is remarkable. As far as RPG goes, BG3 actually gives you a way to do the role-play part of RPG. You just have so much choice and your choices have consequences. For example, it turns out, someone died because I left an encounter that I wasn’t prepared for and that came back on me later when I found a guy that I should have had a quest line with.
You have relationships, you can choose several ways to approach problems and quests, and the character building is huge. There’s real strategy to everything.
Starfield is just so bland in comparison.
(BTW, BG3 combat is real difficult early on, where I’ve had to save scum just to make it past some fights, but at lvl 3 it gets more manageable. Definitely take time to learn your party’s strengths and weaknesses.)
I think “dated” is a terrible concept to apply to game design, despite being able to divide FPS games into pre- and post- Half-Life, boomer shooters are experiencing another boom.
However, Bethesda game design is simply “bad” in my opinion. The RPG mechanics are very surface level and uninteresting, typically an end-game character plays similarly to a beginning character but bullets hit harder or other such styles. Contrast that with games like Cyberpunk, and you unlock new ways to actually interact with combat in meaningfully unique manners.
That’s a very underdeveloped point, but it’s in the right direction I believe.
I’ve never played a Bethesda game and unfortunately Starfield isn’t going to change that (at least in its current form). Based on gameplay footage and reviews I’d rather just stick with No Man’s Sky. NMS seems to do the space exploration better and can already scratch that itch for me. The loading screens and fast travel are off putting enough that Starfield doesn’t seem worth my time. The only feature that draws me to the game at all is the ship builder.
After fallout 4 it went downhill so try any of the previous games depending on how much dated graphics bother you. With mods most of the older games are very enjoyable.
Bethesda has been going downhill ever since Morrowind, to be fair. It’s just that with each release, the number of disgruntled people have been growing, and with Starfield its finally the majority opinion.
I’ll save you the time, the ship builder is fucking awful.
I m a fan of Bethesda games, they all have a taste of something different from the other games, I like starfield, it is easy and fun without too much sugar, It isn’t boring and I do not crave playing it, but I enjoy doing so simply exploring peacefully following the quests and scavenging.
NakeyJakey makes some good points but I personally find his editing and delivery quite abrasive.
He’s getting really mentally unwell. He’s great and hilarious, but he’s been on a downward trajectory with his mental health for a number of years now.
Edit: people downvoting me, go watch all of his channel and get back to me. Dude has been public with his mental health issues for years.
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Yeah but, it has absolutely nothing to do with any point he brings up in th video.
