These M processors come out so fast…
Surprised that the GPU core count is staying the same on the base M3 with all the gaming talk and only seeing limited increases on the Pro and Max.
My assumption is each core with ray tracing consumes more power compared the cores without ray tracing. So their thermal budget likely took a small hit just adding the ray tracing cores to the M3. Meaning they could only bump up the GPU core count by a small amount.
Did they ever lose them?
Depends on what you are measuring/bragging about.
Efficiency is the one that’s still a win for Apple. But raw power has been surpassed by Intel and AMD. Also Apple’s GPU was already surpassed last year with Snapdragon 8 gen 2, and even more with the gen 3.
Plus the upcoming Qualcomm’s chip may be comparable in power efficiency, they claimed 30% less power use at the same performance as the M2 Max. So M3 would need to be much better in that sense to still have bragging rights next year.
Basically, significantly different story from when the M1 released where the gap was bigger. The others are catching up fast.
What’s your source for that?
Searching for benchmark scores on the Snapdragon 8 gen 3 turned up this:
The Apple M1 leads the Snapdragon 8cx Gen 3 by a hefty +55.58% in the single-core test and +31.47% in the multi-core benchmark – bearing in mind that’s comparing our median marks for the M1 against the theoretical best for the Windows on ARM-based laptop. Understandably, the advantages for the Apple M2 are even greater, with the new MacBook Air/Pro processor snagging a massive +72.57% lead over the Snapdragon 8cx Gen 3 in the single-core run and enjoying a +54.89% multi-core difference. So while the Qualcomm processor does offer a very attractive generational performance leap over its own family, it is clearly a distant runner-up to the Apple M-series.
And even that article was from before the M2 Pro and Max CPUs came out…
The one that I said could compete with the M series is their upcoming X Elite platform with the Oryon CPU. Here’s a thread from a few days ago about it.
As for the GPU side for which I used the Snapdragon 8 gen 3, you can look the Geekerwan review here.
Qualcomm’s power/efficiency graph was for single core, which seems disingenuous to compare it to the M2 Max, which has the same single core performance as the M2.
Plus the upcoming Qualcomm’s chip may be comparable in power efficiency, they claimed 30% less power use at the same performance as the M2 Max. So M3 would need to be much better in that sense to still have bragging rights next year.
This was a bit misleading by Qualcomm. What they didn’t show was the power draw at peak multi-core compared to Apple Silicon. Why? It appears that the Snapdragon X Elite uses twice the amount of power as the M2 Max in for example Cinebench 2024 at approximately the same performance, making the power draw comparable to the M2 Ultra.
On reference Linux build by the way…
Yeah, like someone else replied, they were using the M2 Max for single core instead of the M2. Which obviously paints things in their favor.
I hate all companies doing that. Just like when Apple compares to “the Intel powered Macs” or vs the “best selling PC” (which obviously is gonna be worse) and that stuff.
Obviously it’s all complex. It’s not all lineal. Power draw can be fine for most tasks and then be super high on the top end (kind of like the A17 which is power hungry with those P cores) and that could be fine or not depending on what you need.
We have to wait for the reviews once it’s out. That’s why I wasn’t asserting what they said, just left it at what they claimed and what they could achieve.
And thats relying on things being ‘just benchmarks’.
In real world usage on apple devices you’ve got typically far more performant libraries for the average dev, you’ve got far superior ML, especially on M series chips you’ve got things like the AMX which make a lot of operations desirable for ML literally twice as performant as the competition in many tasks. Fat memory bandwidth helps too of course.
Theres a lot up apple’s sleeves from being so vertically integrated, and I think as per usual it will continue to reflect in the real world experience of users and developers.
Nope, and Qualcomm isn’t changing that either. Not based on chips years away.
I’m mostly looking forward to what improvements we can see with respect to gaming.
Ray-tracing is almost certainly going to happen, and if we upscale from the A17 Pro, the gaming performance should be significant.
Keep in mind GPU core counts are not increasing all the much which limits potential performance gains compared to the M2 will be modest.
I guess? Like don’t get me wrong I love my MacBook and I love it for work, but Apple products aren’t a consideration for anyone whose main computer interest is gaming.
I’m this close to just using GeForce Now and never having a desktop again. If my MBP could play the games I like to use mods with and games not on GeForce Now, then I could just stick to consoles plus my MBP forever. It’s not about them being the best gaming PCs. It’s about them being gaming PCs as a secondary function on top of being great primary use PCs.
Geforce Now has been amazing for Mac gamers. I play on a 2011 iMac with modern visuals, its pretty crazy!
Many peoples main computer interest is working, which MacBooks are king for right now. Then occasional gaming is a thing in addition. Getting both done on the same machine would just be super smooth.
Apples are like the superheroes of the fruit world, saving us from hunger with their crunchy, juicy goodness! 🍎💪
If you have control over the OS, the hardware, and perhaps even the software running - it better perform the best over those who just manufacture a chip or just build the OS.
But this is the same as the value vs quality statement. Yes it performs - but does it perform so weak to justify the cost is the question.
if Macbooks are struggling. I just don’t feel at this point processors are the problem. Just got a m2 pro and holy fuck. It’ll be years before this is a problem computer. I just feel Apple should spend more time making the MacBook pro better… Stop the bullshit 8gig and 256g models. THis is not a bash. I love these computers…but m3 doesn’t really feel like a selling point for me at all.
The m1 was so good people don’t have a real incentive to upgrade.
I mean that and the economy so for a slightly faster configuration they most won’t ever see, you can understand why people are not upgrading en masse
There are still lacking features of M2 processors such as AV1 dedicated decoder and real time ray tracing support. Sure normal consumers may not notice but for pro users definitely. Also will improve performance in gaming and help developing 3D/AR/VR software if so.
hopefully we are getting a 27 inch iMac
the fact they bought the exclusivity of the 3nm chips means they’re serious about dominating.
if they want to gain more share in the laptop market they need to keep delivering on the raw performance and positive sentiment for years, makes sense.
The new chipset Apple MK Ultra
better mean cheaper 14" m1pros 2nd hand
Good, intel and AMD actually woke up with M1 and we’ve got some good old fashioned competition on our hands, winners, us.
Bring back the Touch Bar
Benchmarks are one thing. Products in the real world are another.
How about we wait to see actual products with Snapdragon processors in them, how well they run Windows, what’s their battery life etc.
You can’t regain what you haven’t lost.