Honey please, don’t pretend vegans aren’t out here constantly demonizing and berating people for living natural lives and eating natural diets the only way they can.
The old joke, how can you tell someone is vegan? Don’t worry, they will tell you.
It is always baffling how persons who chose to live alternative lifestyles feel the need to tell everyone to conform to their objectively unnatural diet/lifestyle.
The vegan proselytizing jokes are so tired. Do you actually know any vegans? I do, many actually, and the only time they bring up their diets is when discussing plans to eat. They have never pushed me for not being vegan nor shamed me, whereas I’ve been harassed by meat eaters more than once for being vegetarian, as if it personally offends them. If your entire source for “vegans are pushy” are people on the Internet, you need to get outside more.
It drives me crazy that people extrapolate a few terminally online weirdos to entire groups. Vegans are no more a monolith than any other group. My vegan friends don’t shame me for not being vegan, just as I don’t shame them for driving a gas guzzling car, or purchasing unethically manufactured goods. We all pick our battles. We live under an unethical economic system where there is no way to be perfect. We choose the things that are worth it to us, which is why I’m not vegan, despite minimizing my consumption in other areas. Meat eaters have this totally skewed view of vegans as a whole based on a stereotype that only represents a small minority.
Let me shame you then. Go vegan. You’re a coward for making excuses. Be brave for the voiceless and the unseen trillions that the 99% of humanity victimizes.
We live under an unethical economic system where there is no way to be perfect.
Said the slaver in the antebellum south before cracking a whip.
Listen, you’re not “one of the good carnists.” Your vegan friends have given up on you or never saw potential in you. Don’t feel proud of that. Have shame for the bad things you do.
I don’t disagree they should go vegan if they can (and most people realistically can), but doesn’t carnist imply that they eat meat? In an earlier comment in this thread they mentioned being vegetarian.
Like it or not a large amount of vegan discussion online involves terminally online individuals which makes it seem like a larger percent than it actually is to your average person even of it is inaccurate.
Sure action can and should be taken to change that but that is how it currently is.
The least you could do, if you’re not a complete psychopath, is just admit that you’re going to eat meat, no matter how wrong it is. This psuedo-rationalist stuff just doesnt hold up to any scrutiny.
You’re a hypocrite. It’s ok, we all are on some level.
Is it definitively wrong to eat meat? All animals die, should their flesh be wasted? Since you will eventually die is it wrong that you were born? Isn’t it wrong to deny that cow a few years of munching on grass in the sun lit fields? If it wasn’t bred for food consumption, it would never have existed.
You’re not sitting around waiting until animals die to eat them. The meat industry is not waiting until an animal dies of old age, disease, or a freak accident.
According to the definition of veganism that would technically be vegan.
The Vegan Society defines veganism as:
Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose
It’s not exploitative or cruel to eat flesh which died for natural reasons. It is exploitative and cruel to prop up an industry which treats animals like objects to be slaughtered painfully at your convenience.
Since you eventually die, is it wrong that you were born?
This is a non-sequitor that implies that it’s okay to kill animals because they eventually die. Ethically, there’s a huge difference between killing someone and someone dying a natural death.
Isn’t it wrong to deny that cow a few years of munching on grass in the sun lit fields?
You don’t only eat grass-fed beef if you ever go out to eat at restaurants. Most cows aren’t grass-fed because we literally don’t have enough grass on this planet to feed them all. Also, grass-fed cows produce more methane, which is a massive contributor to climate change.
Beef cows are slaughtered at 18 months old, and dairy cows are slaughtered at 4-6 years old when their milk production drops. Cows can live 15-20 years naturally, with the oldest cow being 48 years old. Doing the math, that’s like if I killed you when you were 18.
Stop pretending what we do to animals is nice. Just admit you don’t really care about what they go through and would rather eat a burger.
If it wasn’t bred for food consumption, it would’ve never existed.
That’s an argument for existence having moral weight. By this logic, all humans would have as many babies as possible because we’re depriving potential babies of their existence.
Or are saying that it’s okay to do whatever we want to someone, as long as they “owe us” for being the cause of their existence? In that case, I beg you not to have kids.
That’s an argument for existence having moral weight. By this logic, all humans would have as many babies as possible because we’re depriving potential babies of their existence.
I think the catholic cultists would agree with this…
So existance has no moral weight? If we can’t keep an animal with full vet care and comfort to their maximum age we shouldn’t let them procreate? What about wild animals?
I’m not giving answers, just asking questions because I hope you might realize that it’s not so cut and dry. Many practices of the current meat industry are pretty offensive, but there are alternatives.
But you’re welcome to stick blindly to your meat=bad ideology. Simple people need simple rules, and that’s ok.
No, the only people who matter are the ones who are currently alive. People who are alive can experience suffering. People who don’t exist can’t. You can’t say, “but if I never bred the cow to eat, the cow would’ve never existed! So that means it’s a good thing to breed cows.”
You’re trying to say that because something has the potential to exist, that that potential has moral weight. That’s what the argument for existence is.
But that exact same logic can be used for this:
“But if I never forced those women into having kids, the kids would’ve never existed! That’s why it’s good to force women to have kids.”
You see how that makes no sense?
Anyway.
It’s pretty simple to realize that if there’s an alternative to killing and torturing animals for your 10-15 minutes of pleasure at dinner, then you should seek out that alternative. Just because it’s a simple idea doesn’t mean I’m wrong.
Also if you read my post at all, you’d realize I never said meat was bad. I literally pointed out that you’re not waiting around for an animal to die peacefully of old age before eating it. You’re the one simplifying my points and then calling me simple. lol.
If you scroll up:
It’s not exploitative or cruel to eat flesh which died for natural reasons. It is exploitative and cruel to prop up an industry which treats animals like objects to be slaughtered painfully at your convenience.
You say there are alternatives to the meat industry. That’s called veganism.
Chickens, seriously, are made for food. They’re cool little animals. Curious. A little fun, and a little annoying at times. They make pleasant sounds. But consider them. Small package, eggs, and yummy meat. Easy enough to deal with in small numbers too, IF you’re willing to clean the chicken shit out of their coop and all the rest.
I think the big problem for many is factory farming. I doubt any of us likes seeing those open cages stuffed with leghorns stacked high on a semi trailer in the open wind of the interstate. Looks miserable.
Is it so bad if you’re personally involved in the entire process of your meat?
It’s November. There’s about to be a lot of freezers filled with venison. Hunters will shoot the animal, and many will hang the carcass in their own garage and butcher it themselves, and fill a freezer. I say this as someone who loves to watch the deer in my front yard. I watched another pair of fawns grow past their spots this year. But I’ll still eat one.
Drove past a cow farm in California once. They were stacked shoulder to shoulder in there. Mud, no grass. Looked miserable. That bothers me. Venison in the freezer in November or backyard chickens do not. The latter shows more respect imo.
“The earth, seriously was made for fracking.” As in humans have inbred them to be obese in a few weeks? That they would pop out enough nutrients to create another life multiple times a day to be your breakfast instead of only in the spring for the actual purpose of procreation? Then yes. But do you have the authority to sentence a life to be your food? No, you don’t. It’s morally unjustifiable. Stop killing beings that don’t want to be killed just because you want to.
I wish I could’ve taken a pic while driving, This was not like a normal farm around a feeding trailer, or the dairy line to the barn to be milked. The cows looked like they were stuffed into that “pasture” of mud. Like there were 3-4x the number there should’ve been in that space.
The idea that vegans just announce themselves constantly isn’t true for the vast majority of vegans. Sometimes you do need to mention it, like when picking a restaurant in a social group with people who don’t yet know you’re a vegan. I do the same as a vegetarian, and I did the same when I was a vegan. You know who was very loud though? Annoying people who interrogated me on how dared I not eat meat (and this was a whole lot more common when I was a vegan).
People with any “restricted diet” (I don’t think animal bodies are valid food, so I don’t consider it a restriction) have to remind people of their diet rather frequently—people eat food a lot, and veganism is rare.
Also, veganism is prefectly natural. The massive amounts of caged animals? That’s the unnatural thing. This is just appeal to nature (a logical fallacy), anyways.
If you are a human you are an omnivore and if you’re diet doesn’t include animal proteins, that’s a restriction.
It doesn’t matter if you can supplement or source it elsewhere.
Our bodies have evolved to ingest, digest, and expell animal matter and plant matter.
Willingly choosing not to ingest one or the other, as you do, is a restriction.
Look at me! I’m masculine! I’m eating meat! I’m not doing it because I was brainwashed into wanting such a thing and being told how to achieve it by the people selling it! I’m just fuckin EDGY at these soy losers!
Cows are probably not going to last long given everything that’s happening. They take up too much spave and resources. Pretty much anyone responsible with a backyard can have 2-4 chickens.
Problem is that dairy production results in more cows (because you can only milk during/after pregnancy). So, unless dairy consumption goes way down, we’ll always have excess cows kicking about, which makes them very cheap for the meat industry.
Please oppose extracting resources out of chicken for your benefit, at their cost.
Please oppose commodifying animals and leave them alone.
Why don’t vegans eat backyard eggs?
You’re kind of unbelievable to make a post like this when you’re not even vegan. THIS is the antivegan psyop.
Thanks for sharing that article. I wasn’t aware of the health issues and other complications from backyard chickens. I still opposed it on the basis of not being able to take people at their word when they claim to take care of their chickens, as the profit motive pulls you against the chickens’ best interests, but I appreciate the additional information.
Aww that’s so sweet. Thank you! Yeah like…first thing I ask people with backyard chicken is where they got them from (it’s a breeder). And most people that have backyard chicken aren’t even serious enough to be “completely vegan except this.” Let alone everyone that imvokes the “what about backyard chicken” excuse. So it’s a garbage distraction.
It’s a lot more respectable when people are actually completely vegan except x, when they make excuses about oh but I can’t give up x. Bar’s in hell.
I don’t care if you’re honest. I care you stop hurting others. How about you go vegan before lecturing vegans about how to do veganism correctly. I couldn’t give two shits about what non vegans like you think about PETA. Only makes me think that their “aggressive tactics” worked on you and made you uncomfortable about your complicity.
Either way, I’m still going to eat chicken and eggs.
Vegans: -exist-
People like you: DON’T MIND ME LOUDLY MENTION I LOVE MEAT
The point is, the lecturing and loud statements swing either way. And, either way, they’re no fun.
Honey please, don’t pretend vegans aren’t out here constantly demonizing and berating people for living natural lives and eating natural diets the only way they can. The old joke, how can you tell someone is vegan? Don’t worry, they will tell you.
It is always baffling how persons who chose to live alternative lifestyles feel the need to tell everyone to conform to their objectively unnatural diet/lifestyle.
The vegan proselytizing jokes are so tired. Do you actually know any vegans? I do, many actually, and the only time they bring up their diets is when discussing plans to eat. They have never pushed me for not being vegan nor shamed me, whereas I’ve been harassed by meat eaters more than once for being vegetarian, as if it personally offends them. If your entire source for “vegans are pushy” are people on the Internet, you need to get outside more.
Its an extremely loud minority of vegans on the internet
It drives me crazy that people extrapolate a few terminally online weirdos to entire groups. Vegans are no more a monolith than any other group. My vegan friends don’t shame me for not being vegan, just as I don’t shame them for driving a gas guzzling car, or purchasing unethically manufactured goods. We all pick our battles. We live under an unethical economic system where there is no way to be perfect. We choose the things that are worth it to us, which is why I’m not vegan, despite minimizing my consumption in other areas. Meat eaters have this totally skewed view of vegans as a whole based on a stereotype that only represents a small minority.
Let me shame you then. Go vegan. You’re a coward for making excuses. Be brave for the voiceless and the unseen trillions that the 99% of humanity victimizes.
Said the slaver in the antebellum south before cracking a whip.
Listen, you’re not “one of the good carnists.” Your vegan friends have given up on you or never saw potential in you. Don’t feel proud of that. Have shame for the bad things you do.
I don’t disagree they should go vegan if they can (and most people realistically can), but doesn’t carnist imply that they eat meat? In an earlier comment in this thread they mentioned being vegetarian.
I just use it to mean anti/non vegan and carnism to be rough synonym for speciesism ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Like it or not a large amount of vegan discussion online involves terminally online individuals which makes it seem like a larger percent than it actually is to your average person even of it is inaccurate.
Sure action can and should be taken to change that but that is how it currently is.
Wow, found the vegan!
Did you read my comment? I’m not vegan…
The least you could do, if you’re not a complete psychopath, is just admit that you’re going to eat meat, no matter how wrong it is. This psuedo-rationalist stuff just doesnt hold up to any scrutiny.
You’re a hypocrite. It’s ok, we all are on some level.
deleted by creator
Is it definitively wrong to eat meat? All animals die, should their flesh be wasted? Since you will eventually die is it wrong that you were born? Isn’t it wrong to deny that cow a few years of munching on grass in the sun lit fields? If it wasn’t bred for food consumption, it would never have existed.
You’re not sitting around waiting until animals die to eat them. The meat industry is not waiting until an animal dies of old age, disease, or a freak accident.
According to the definition of veganism that would technically be vegan.
The Vegan Society defines veganism as: Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose
It’s not exploitative or cruel to eat flesh which died for natural reasons. It is exploitative and cruel to prop up an industry which treats animals like objects to be slaughtered painfully at your convenience.
This is a non-sequitor that implies that it’s okay to kill animals because they eventually die. Ethically, there’s a huge difference between killing someone and someone dying a natural death.
You don’t only eat grass-fed beef if you ever go out to eat at restaurants. Most cows aren’t grass-fed because we literally don’t have enough grass on this planet to feed them all. Also, grass-fed cows produce more methane, which is a massive contributor to climate change.
Beef cows are slaughtered at 18 months old, and dairy cows are slaughtered at 4-6 years old when their milk production drops. Cows can live 15-20 years naturally, with the oldest cow being 48 years old. Doing the math, that’s like if I killed you when you were 18.
Stop pretending what we do to animals is nice. Just admit you don’t really care about what they go through and would rather eat a burger.
That’s an argument for existence having moral weight. By this logic, all humans would have as many babies as possible because we’re depriving potential babies of their existence.
Or are saying that it’s okay to do whatever we want to someone, as long as they “owe us” for being the cause of their existence? In that case, I beg you not to have kids.
I think the catholic cultists would agree with this…
So existance has no moral weight? If we can’t keep an animal with full vet care and comfort to their maximum age we shouldn’t let them procreate? What about wild animals? I’m not giving answers, just asking questions because I hope you might realize that it’s not so cut and dry. Many practices of the current meat industry are pretty offensive, but there are alternatives.
But you’re welcome to stick blindly to your meat=bad ideology. Simple people need simple rules, and that’s ok.
No, the only people who matter are the ones who are currently alive. People who are alive can experience suffering. People who don’t exist can’t. You can’t say, “but if I never bred the cow to eat, the cow would’ve never existed! So that means it’s a good thing to breed cows.”
You’re trying to say that because something has the potential to exist, that that potential has moral weight. That’s what the argument for existence is.
But that exact same logic can be used for this: “But if I never forced those women into having kids, the kids would’ve never existed! That’s why it’s good to force women to have kids.”
You see how that makes no sense?
Anyway.
It’s pretty simple to realize that if there’s an alternative to killing and torturing animals for your 10-15 minutes of pleasure at dinner, then you should seek out that alternative. Just because it’s a simple idea doesn’t mean I’m wrong.
Also if you read my post at all, you’d realize I never said meat was bad. I literally pointed out that you’re not waiting around for an animal to die peacefully of old age before eating it. You’re the one simplifying my points and then calling me simple. lol.
If you scroll up:
You say there are alternatives to the meat industry. That’s called veganism.
You rape them into existence. Stop raping animals.
Chickens, seriously, are made for food. They’re cool little animals. Curious. A little fun, and a little annoying at times. They make pleasant sounds. But consider them. Small package, eggs, and yummy meat. Easy enough to deal with in small numbers too, IF you’re willing to clean the chicken shit out of their coop and all the rest.
I think the big problem for many is factory farming. I doubt any of us likes seeing those open cages stuffed with leghorns stacked high on a semi trailer in the open wind of the interstate. Looks miserable.
Is it so bad if you’re personally involved in the entire process of your meat?
It’s November. There’s about to be a lot of freezers filled with venison. Hunters will shoot the animal, and many will hang the carcass in their own garage and butcher it themselves, and fill a freezer. I say this as someone who loves to watch the deer in my front yard. I watched another pair of fawns grow past their spots this year. But I’ll still eat one.
Drove past a cow farm in California once. They were stacked shoulder to shoulder in there. Mud, no grass. Looked miserable. That bothers me. Venison in the freezer in November or backyard chickens do not. The latter shows more respect imo.
“The earth, seriously was made for fracking.” As in humans have inbred them to be obese in a few weeks? That they would pop out enough nutrients to create another life multiple times a day to be your breakfast instead of only in the spring for the actual purpose of procreation? Then yes. But do you have the authority to sentence a life to be your food? No, you don’t. It’s morally unjustifiable. Stop killing beings that don’t want to be killed just because you want to.
Edit: format
I’ve seen cows feeding like that, but then they go out for a while. I’m in Canada, maybe it’s different.
I wish I could’ve taken a pic while driving, This was not like a normal farm around a feeding trailer, or the dairy line to the barn to be milked. The cows looked like they were stuffed into that “pasture” of mud. Like there were 3-4x the number there should’ve been in that space.
The idea that vegans just announce themselves constantly isn’t true for the vast majority of vegans. Sometimes you do need to mention it, like when picking a restaurant in a social group with people who don’t yet know you’re a vegan. I do the same as a vegetarian, and I did the same when I was a vegan. You know who was very loud though? Annoying people who interrogated me on how dared I not eat meat (and this was a whole lot more common when I was a vegan).
Just stfu.
But it is true on the Internet.
Caught another one!
People with any “restricted diet” (I don’t think animal bodies are valid food, so I don’t consider it a restriction) have to remind people of their diet rather frequently—people eat food a lot, and veganism is rare.
Also, veganism is prefectly natural. The massive amounts of caged animals? That’s the unnatural thing. This is just appeal to nature (a logical fallacy), anyways.
If you are a human you are an omnivore and if you’re diet doesn’t include animal proteins, that’s a restriction. It doesn’t matter if you can supplement or source it elsewhere. Our bodies have evolved to ingest, digest, and expell animal matter and plant matter. Willingly choosing not to ingest one or the other, as you do, is a restriction.
But which will you eat first?
Yeah I enjoy eating a hamburger in front of a cow.
Look at me! I’m masculine! I’m eating meat! I’m not doing it because I was brainwashed into wanting such a thing and being told how to achieve it by the people selling it! I’m just fuckin EDGY at these soy losers!
Guitar riff! Skateboard! Backwards baseball cap! Crossed arms! Don’t mess with me, buster!
That’s… disturbing.
Cows are so affectionate though!
Cows are probably not going to last long given everything that’s happening. They take up too much spave and resources. Pretty much anyone responsible with a backyard can have 2-4 chickens.
Crows have proven themselves to be exceptionally intelligent and resourceful. They may well outlast us.
CAWW CAWW
I believe they said cows?
Oops.
Domesticated cows are cooked.
Problem is that dairy production results in more cows (because you can only milk during/after pregnancy). So, unless dairy consumption goes way down, we’ll always have excess cows kicking about, which makes them very cheap for the meat industry.
I have a medium-sized garden in my house with a few chickens and a tree.
That’s how I oppose chicken factory farms.
Please oppose extracting resources out of chicken for your benefit, at their cost. Please oppose commodifying animals and leave them alone. Why don’t vegans eat backyard eggs?
You’re kind of unbelievable to make a post like this when you’re not even vegan. THIS is the antivegan psyop.
Thanks for sharing that article. I wasn’t aware of the health issues and other complications from backyard chickens. I still opposed it on the basis of not being able to take people at their word when they claim to take care of their chickens, as the profit motive pulls you against the chickens’ best interests, but I appreciate the additional information.
Aww that’s so sweet. Thank you! Yeah like…first thing I ask people with backyard chicken is where they got them from (it’s a breeder). And most people that have backyard chicken aren’t even serious enough to be “completely vegan except this.” Let alone everyone that imvokes the “what about backyard chicken” excuse. So it’s a garbage distraction.
It’s a lot more respectable when people are actually completely vegan except x, when they make excuses about oh but I can’t give up x. Bar’s in hell.
At least I’m honest. (Unlike PETA)
PETA is not.
I don’t care if you’re honest. I care you stop hurting others. How about you go vegan before lecturing vegans about how to do veganism correctly. I couldn’t give two shits about what non vegans like you think about PETA. Only makes me think that their “aggressive tactics” worked on you and made you uncomfortable about your complicity.