I don’t know what you millenial z’s or something keep complaining about - just buy a detached single family house with a backyard in the city for 125k and pay up your 1% interest rate mortgage within 10 years while your wife keeps it clean and drinks herself to death while resenting you daily, like any civilized 30 year old with a job for life and guaranteed payout pension does!
Is the /s really necessary?
Man. Every time I see it again spelled out, how smooth these disingenuous decrepit assholes had it when they were my age, I start wishing for a claymore and a stump.
Is the /s really necessary?
Depending on the age range, someone might think you are being serious. I’d just leave it.
Look at these fucking comments around us, it’s clearly neccesary.
If someone thinks you are serious this would prove the dystopian reality even more haha
Landlords out here in lemmy dot marxist lenninists comments deadass pretending their right to steal wealth is more important than ones fundamental human right to housing.
Let this be your reminder that “Landlords” do nothing of value. Anytime they claim they are, they are doing the work of an occupation that possibly does, like an electrician or developer or architect or carpenter or handyman or painter or realtor. Ticket scalpers don’t create tickets. Don’t let these antisocial freaks rewrite the dictionary, or excuse their own refusal to read anything about their own behavior.
If they try to cosplay as a pitiable person who only owns a house and doesn’t want to be broke, tell them that their victims don’t want that either, and only the landlord hates working for a living more than they hate parasitizing the wealth others. Their “ethical and reasonable” rent seeking is enabled by the threat of violence from the other “unreasonable” rent seekers, therefore acting as a single unified class.
They could have sold their houses to profit, but that’s not enough for them. They must do their part to squeeze every drop of blood from that soil so that they don’t accidentally decomodify housing even slightly by providing their smidge of housing to the captive market.
Read On The Rent of the Land. Fuckers.
Sir, this is a meme community
Paying a bank hundreds of thousands of dollars in interest is also robbery. what did the bank do? Were rich and did paperwork. Wow so irreplaceable and valuable. Think of all the poor people they swindled to get there! Amazing 😍
The bank isnt even that rich… They are allowed to just dream up the money from nothing and lend it to you.
And if you miss a payment, they get to reposses a real asset.
This is the biggest scam in history. The bank lends you imaginary money, and then reposesses a real asset
Disclaimer: not advocating for current system.
What alternative would you propose for providing loans?
My controversial (for Lemmy) take is that loans are good for society. They provide an incentive to not hoard resources, but provide them to those who want to put them into action today for future benefit.
A good loan benefits both parties, ie. An auto loan that allows someone to buy a car to get to a job to earn an income that is above the cost of the loan. Without the loan that person couldn’t get to work and whatever service they were providing to society is lost.
All that said - that doesn’t mean the way loans work today is the best solution, but the same functionality of trading current and future resources needs to exist. You don’t have to call it a loan, and it doesn’t have to be performed by private for profit institutions, but if you want a thriving economy I believe you need this function carried out somehow.
The equivalent function in Communism is (or historically has been) a centrally planned resource allocation which very clearly is a horrible idea because of the incentives towards corruption. If you take a literal interpretation of communism (instead of historical) where “the workers own the means of production” trade unions could fulfill this current to future resource allocation function. I do not know if this would create the same corruption as single central authority, but my gut feels is that it would (based on the US labor union and organized crime affiliation of the past.
In short, the current function for trading current and future resources (ie. loans) is far from ideal, but I have not found an alternate that provides more benefits than deficits. I would love to learn about more alternatives, but just saying ‘loans R bad’ makes it sound like you’re advocating getting rid of them with nothing to handle their underlying function, which is a terrible idea.
I think a lot of folks have a fundamental misunderstanding of how loans work. The banks don’t get to just magically conjure up as much money as that want. It is backed by actual money/assets and federal regulations require a certain ratio between what the bank has loaned and the amount of money they have readily on hand.
I agree that it’s not a perfect system, and I definitely think “businesses” that offer those sketchy payday loan arrangements should be illegal, as they often price gouge the shit out of the interest rates (in fact, I believe many states have outlawed them). But I don’t know of a better solution that isn’t dependent on a utopian-esque idea.
The banks don’t get to just magically conjure up as much money as that want. It is backed by actual money/assets
Haha, dream on.
Wow, I thought they’d raised it back up after COVID “ended.” How ridiculous, you’d think that would be one of the first tools they’d use to address inflation outside of just raising interest rates.
You are incorrect. Banks do create money from nothing. And I don’t know if it’s unlimited but I’m not sure why it needs to be unlimited to feel weird and/or unfair.
That is not true. This is typically how bank loans work: You make an account at a bank and deposit, say, $1000. Before 2020, the Fed would require the bank to retain something like 10% of that $1000 (just using 10% in this example, I haven’t looked up what the ratio was pre-2020). So they’d deposit $100 of your cash to keep on hand and could then loan out the other $900 to those seeking a loan.
However, the Fed set that reserve ratio to 0% in 2020, which is idiotic in the long-term and also likely a main contributor several banks collapsed in 2022/2023 as the Fed started raising interest rates (I’m no economic expert by any means, so I could be wrong on the main contributing factor).
I think you’re mixing up regular banks with the federal reserve, who definitely can just print money out of thin air.
What if the bank decides to keep all $1.000 and loan out $10.000? While money wasn’t printed, phantom money was most definitely conjured out of thin air. And with the magic I don’t see how a bank couldn’t have, say, bought Disney with the phantom dollars
You’re misunderstanding the basics of banking like the other fellow I responded to. I provided a link by the IMF that explains the fundamentals in another reply. I’ll provide another one: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fractionalreservebanking.asp
Normal commercial banks cannot just print money, which is exactly what you’re implying with “phantom money.” The money has to come from somewhere and/or be backed by something. So no, a bank can’t just magically turn $1000 into $10,000 without something securing the additional money or the extra money coming from other funds. Only the Fed (or other countries’ central banks/governments) can print money on a whim.
Can you read what you just wrote?
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No, I’m thinking of loans. Any bank. I’ve heard this from multiple reliable sources. Here’s a quick one: https://economics.stackexchange.com/questions/26991/is-money-mostly-created-out-of-nothing-by-banks-making-loans
From the very source you linked–which isn’t even a good source to begin with since very little of the actual responses there use their cited sources correctly, often quoting shit out of context or misinterpreting the source material:
The “out of nothing” aspect of your question is more complex. In my personal view, and I guess that’s only an opinion, is that because banks are government regulated and insured institutions, forced to back each loan with reserves, and regulated to have capital for each of those loans, they cannot really be said to make this private money out of nothing.
But again, that’s just one user’s response. Not a credible source. So here:
Creating money
Banks also create money. They do this because they must hold on reserve, and not lend out, some portion of their deposits—either in cash or in securities that can be quickly converted to cash. The amount of those reserves depends both on the bank’s assessment of its depositors’ need for cash and on the requirements of bank regulators, typically the central bank—a government institution that is at the center of a country’s monetary and banking system. Banks keep those required reserves on deposit with central banks, such as the U.S. Federal Reserve, the Bank of Japan, and the European Central Bank. Banks create money when they lend the rest of the money depositors give them. This money can be used to purchase goods and services and can find its way back into the banking system as a deposit in another bank, which then can lend a fraction of it. The process of relending can repeat itself a number of times in a phenomenon called the multiplier effect. The size of the multiplier—the amount of money created from an initial deposit—depends on the amount of money banks must keep on reserve.
Banks also lend and recycle excess money within the financial system and create, distribute, and trade securities.
Banks have several ways of making money besides pocketing the difference (or spread) between the interest they pay on deposits and borrowed money and the interest they collect from borrowers or securities they hold. They can earn money from
•income from securities they trade; and
•fees for customer services, such as checking accounts, financial and investment banking, loan servicing, and the origination, distribution, and sale of other financial products, such as insurance and mutual funds.
Banks earn on average between 1 and 2 percent of their assets (loans and securities). This is commonly referred to as a bank’s return on assets.
https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2012/03/basics.htm
Which is a more detailed explanation of what I originally said. Yes, they create money. But it’s coming from somewhere and backed by something and not just magically imagined.
In the US, the Fed can just print money, and they have numerous times. But that’s because they’re legally allowed to. Banks don’t have the authority to straight up print new cash without something backing it up (e.g. reserves, assets, securities, transactions, etc.)
Please read on the rent of the land by Smith, and anything by Henry George.
You appear to be advocating for anarchist concepts of free association and contract theory, but I’ve seen no specific citations. Are there any you’d reccomend?
What alternative would you propose for providing loans?
Making things affordable (or just priced within reason) if they are considered a necessity to live in society.
Yes, there are survival necessities ie. food, water, shelter. But in modern society, we can add Internet, phone, car (depending on where you live) or bus pass etc, and probably tuition for at least a bachelor’s degree.
If you want to buy a boat or some shit, then sure, you should have to take out a loan.
Love your optimism, but “making things affordable” is not a valid plan for managing resources. It provides a goal without a solution.
Are you suggesting price fixing? That has a lot of associated outcomes that typically cause worse situations than doing nothing.
You can introduce a guaranteed buyer at fixed price points which alleviate some of the negative consequences, but add others.
These are not simple problems. The reason these problems exist isn’t solely because “rich and powerful people are evil” as nice as that would be. These problems still exist because they’re complicated and ‘one size fits all’ solutions haven’t been found for them.
The obvious solution is to dismantle capitalism and destroy anyone that gets in the way.
Again, love the lofty goal you’re setting, but you pretty blatantly don’t mention an alternative system. Easy to point out a problem, much harder to build a real solution.
The funny thing is, capitalism happened organically. It wasn’t a designed system. So dismantling capitalism without a solid replacement will likely just lead right back to capitalism.
The funny thing is, capitalism happened organically. It wasn’t a designed system. So dismantling capitalism without a solid replacement will likely just lead right back to capitalism.
March of history. When material conditions are right you transition from feudalism to capitalism. When material conditions build up further, you get the transition to socialism and then communism.
I think a better goal may be to make plans affordable. Loans are a valuable tool, if they’re at a decent rate, so restructure them. Interest never compounds. Rates have to be reasonable. Payments always come out of principle, with interest tacked on and paid at the end of the loan’s life. It’s also a reeeeeeally hard task to say just “make things affordable”
And even if the bank owns 90% of the home you are still on the hook to pay the full property taxes.
Hahaha wow… I never even thought about this. I’m paying “rent” to a landlord who doesnt even cover the taxes lol
I’m pretty sure banks don’t just make up money but I’d be interested in finding out why you think they do.
I think the answers to the question are generally isaying it isn’t as simple as ‘creatijg money out of nothing’. They may be creating money but that money is backed against assets which they do own.
because banks are government regulated and insured institutions, forced to back each loan with reserves, and regulated to have capital for each of those loans, they cannot really be said to make this private money out of nothing.
The context you left out there said right before that “in my opinion”. In any case though, before it was “backed” by a fraction of the loan. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t new money that did not yet exist. It just means if the bank folded there was something to go toward repaying those whom they owed. But in any case that fraction was reduced to zero in the US under trump. Something I learned in this thread. So really, now that backing doesn’t exist any longer.
How is money created? Some is created by the state, but usually in a financial emergency. For instance, the crash gave rise to quantitative easing – money pumped directly into the economy by the government. The vast majority of money (97%) comes into being when a commercial bank extends a loan.
I’m interested in how you’re so confidently incorrect about a very basic fact about how capitalism works.
Hey, I simply said what I thought and expressed interest in what you thought. Not everyone here is trying to attack you.
If I misread the tone of your message, my bad.
How is money created? Some is created by the state, but usually in a financial emergency. For instance, the crash gave rise to quantitative easing – money pumped directly into the economy by the government. The vast majority of money (97%) comes into being when a commercial bank extends a loan.
I agree with you. And yeah it’s bizarre that loans are literally just a privilege that banks get…to create new money out of thin fucking air. I agree–Biggest scam in history.
They dream up money? How does that work? I’d like to do that.
You should read about how banks work. Most of their “assets” don’t actually exist, they’re counting borrowed money as still being theirs.
Source?
Any basic book on banking. When I say basic, I mean the sort you’d read to get an entry level job at one.
Landlord stans havent read Smith after a 200 year head start, what makes you think they will read anything?
This is less for the benefit of the willfully stupid than it is for bystanders that would be taken in by the unchallenged ignorance.
🌈Fractional reserve banking
Simply put, when enough people deposit money into their accounts, banks will simply take the money and lend it to someone else. It is not “their” money, but crunch enough numbers and do enough predictions and you might make it out.
That’s why “run on the bank” is such a feared things - if everyone starts withdrawing cash or sending it to a different bank, the bank can’t really do that because they don’t have the money.
Yes, it’s the largest way money is created in modern democracies
Is this post saying that if the landlord CAN afford the house without you paying rent, then it’s justified, and in that case they ARE providing you housing?
In the same way GPU and game console scalpers were generously, out of the goodness of their heart providing GPUs and game consoles to the masses.
Thank the lord for scalpers, honestly. Glad they were able to help some people get their stuff!
Yeah I had the same thought, this post doesn’t make a very good anti-landlord argument if in the case the renters stop paying, then both they and the landlord lose their homes.
funny though
oops was that out loud? ahem sorry
Although I agree with the sentiment - I am curious how the system works with landlords having so many unoccupied units in some cities. Especially business/commercial/industrial landlords. It keeps rent artificially high, while reducing some types of overhead I would guess.
Speculation. Some investors are more interested in holding the property until they can sell it in the future for a profit, rather than the rent they would earn now. Some landlords will have negative cashflow even if they are charging rent because they know they can sell the property for a profit later.
So if the housing market crashed like really bad, by say everybody owning multiple homes being suddenly unable to afford the loans for that many homes, what would happen?
The banks would have to repossess the properties. And sell them on the market, but with many homes to sell, the price would come down crashing.
One can dream.
How does the business of being a landlord not work out to a “yes and” solution? You could make money on rent and sell at a later date. Is risk too high due to the cost of proper upkeep when a unit is occupied? Is it the cost of management?
My family has a few houses they rent out. Not nearly enough income to live off of as they all have other jobs, but it’s some. As a rule, an empty apartment is better than a bad tenant. Not only will a bad tenant not pay and take months to remove, they will actively destroy the place causing thousands in damages. “Just sue them” someone may say. Well, they don’t have any money for rent, they surely don’t have 10 months of rent + $4k in repair + legal fees. Sure, we can garnish their wages. What’s 5% of $0 in reported income per month?
Yes, some landlords deserve the hate they get but let’s not pretend everyone is the perfect tenant either. The people of Walmart need to live somewhere.
I think that a lower price for the rent translates into a lower valuation of the property. So an empty apartment at $2000 a month is still theoretically worth more at sale than a rented apartment at $1500
That is precisely how we have wound up in the current market.
housing are people to live in. shouldn’t be used for speculation. a landlord in my building owns like 7 or 8 apartments. insanely hight rent prices. this should be fucking ilegal. greed destroying society
Thanks for reminding me to pay rent today :/
Rent is robbery… But your landlord is poorer than you? What?
People with diverse skills or able to remote work, move to the Midwest and rural mountain states. Swing them blue and get all the mcmansions you want.
So your building mechanic, accountant, and one liable in case anything goes wrong who is just as poor and destitute as him huh?
Doesn’t sound like a landlord problem does it?
Yes, yes they are. Which is why you pay for their services.
If a you pay a mechanic to fix your car, and it breaks down on the way home, you take that shit back and tell them to fix it.
If you pick up your car and the mechanic complains of an overdraft fee from the bank, because everything hinged on you picking up your car at noon instead of 3pm, that isn’t your problem.
No one said that landlord’s are poor, landlord’s quite literally leech off of their tenants pay checks, making them even richer than they were to start, without lifting a finger, or contributing anything to society.
It sure sounds like the cases you’re talking about are landlords who are building mechanics, accountants, and living just as paycheck to paycheck trying to stay afloat just like all of you.
We get it, you’re a leech.
Sounds like a rich people laughing at poors fighting each other problem to me.
But yeah, keep blaming your neighbor and the one who you literally have to work with to live in your overpriced city. That’ll really change things this time you fake ass propaganda pushing gullible sap.
Dude, you’re name is joking about native American genocide, stfu
Blankets with smallpox is made up history mate. Go read.
The British repeatedly gave blankets they new had smallpox. Todays evidence is that nothing happened, the virus was already dead. But it’s worth mentioning that from a Native American perspective this still happened, they received blankets and shortly after they had an epidemic. Whether they contracted it from the blankets or not is sort of besides they point, they intended to infect Native Americans with smallpox and local tribes ended up having a smallpox epidemic shortly after. Maybe they found another way, or maybe someone got infected by coming in contact with the British during one of the conflicts. But does it really matter? With or without blankets they still murdered millions (thought to be the largest genocide in human history) of native people on their own land simply because they wanted to steal all the land. They didn’t need smallpox to do that, they did it with guns, and forced starvation.
A home is for living in. A person has one body, therefore one home per person/family unit is an appropriate number. Corporations have no bodies, therefore they do not need homes.
Not only is rent robbery, but private property in itself has its origins in theft.
ITT: No one understands the benefits of renting over owning a home.
Well in theory it makes you more mobile (if you want/need to move for some reason): just give your landlord notice and move out. Whereas selling can take an indefinite amount of time.
Yeah, not to mention the responsibilities that a landlord has when it comes to maintenance on the property. I was saying no one else in this thread gets that there are benefits to renting, even though there are.
This is called a risk investment. The risk is that nobody rents the place, in which case the landlord would lose the property.
As a renter, you have the freedom to call out that bet, but it’s quite probable that somebody else will rent instead of you. Also, if the markets are efficient, it’s almost 100% that you’re not getting a better deal anywhere else for your place of residence.
Everyone paints landlords as money grubbing evil people. I own a couple rental houses and set prices so that my return is 7% annually. While that may paint me as the description above realize this; that price was set when I set a tenant and only increases with inflation. The majority of my units are 25% below market rates because once I have a good tenant I don’t see a reason to make more work for me. 7% return and I never hear from them is worth it in my mind.
There are very few jobs that actually give annual raises that keep up with inflation. You are no better than corporations that raise the price of food for no reason, other than following an arbitrary market metric(inflation) You should give your tenants 3 months free rent for Christmas, and give them the option to buy the properties from you for what you bought them for, and get a real job.
What part of 25% below market makes you compare him to the food oligopoly? He likes trouble-free tenants, and I’m pretty sure his tenants like this arrangement too. By contast, you come off as very tiresome. Do you have any skin in the game? What are you doing to help make housing affordable? Do you do anything besides exemplify why having revolutionaries in charge would be terrifying?
What part about 25% below market makes them a hero, while they are actively hoarding properties keeping prospective buyers out of the market, raising prices to keep up with “inflation” on a commodity necessary for survival IS the exact same thing the food oligopolies are doing. And wtf are you on about having skin in the game? I pay $1700 a month in a rent controlled apartment and have no hope of buying a actual property in the market i live in without having to move hours away from work. I would love to hear what you think i should be doing to help make affordable housing, cause if its within my means, ill do it.
Well, there’s some timeless advice on these topics, right? The simplest is: be likeable. The reason is that since you can’t accomplish the task on your own, you need people to take your side, and to do that you need them to want you win, whatever the arguments. (“that’s dumb, my argument is better”. Yeah, maybe, but if people don’t like you, that won’t matter)
Another, more focused on societal change is: Move the middle. The middle of the bell curve is where most of everything is, and moving it, even slightly, can have dramatic effects. Also, if you want get anywhere, getting going at all is probably a good move, right? I’m thinking specifically of sorting recycling: it’s mostly bullshit, but the bizdev bros would murder for that kind of ‘engagement’. It’s easier to sell everyone on next step when they’re already on board…
Or, you know, rant about revolution. It’s not going to change anything, but it might make you feel better.
Lol be likeable?! Nah not gonna delute my message to be likeable to landlord’s or folks who have rent seeking behaviors, I’ll just keep pointing the inherent flaws and hypocrisy of capitalism in meme format to hasten its end, not trying to lead any van guard, merely raising the dial of class conciousness, I see no need to be nice to landlord’s who are leeching off of society, but I wont go so far as to say they deserve the wall. I haven’t ranted once about revolution in this thread nor have I read all the comments in it which I assume is what you are referring to, but you must recognize that when peaceful revolution is impossible violent revolution is inevitable, and I know which side I would support when push came to shove and if you would support the side that has exploited the working class for decades just because you want to be a landlord you are no comrade of mine.
Lemmy can be such a hateful place sometimes. Mom and Pop landlords such as yourself are not the problem. I would assume that most people renting from you are not in a situation where they can buy a house yet. Providing them a place at a reasonable price gives them the opportunity to save for a house of their own. I think just about everybody who has bought a house had to rent first, including myself, without available rentals what would we do?
The only issue I have is with the types that rent part of their house at a price that’s well above their mortgage payments. I hate that everyone just shrugs and says “the market has spoken! Some website said I could get 2k for a studio basement apartment so that’s the price!”
I can’t say I like people buying multiple houses and then renting them so there is less for everyone who wants to buy, but I can be somewhat sympathetic to the idea that there really are people who just want to rent a house for a handful of years and then move on so in that case it really is a service.
My last landlord charged 1200 for a basement… His mortgage was less than $900… Yeah yeah taxes and whatnot, but the point remains that I should not be paying all of your expenses for the “luxury” of renting a basement…
Ok, then don’t.
Go find another place to live.
That’s the punchline of this joke. You can’t. They’re all like this.
Stop pretending the free market provides infinite choices that we can jump to if we don’t like something. That’s not a thing outside of like, some consumer goods.
I’m not pretending.
I’m pointing out the flaw it the whining.
There’s a lot of should and shouldn’t statements that are just wish fulfillment and not reality.
Now that you’re done bitching about the housing crisis…what’s your actual proposed solution?
Should we take the home from the guy renting you that apartment so you can have it? Force lower rents, leaving him unmotivated to bother renting it?
What’s your point beyond rents are too high? We all know there’s a problem, how do you propose we fix it, because landlords aren’t the root of the issue but this whole thread seems to want to pretend they are.
They are the market. Who else sets prices other than landlords? How can a “rent is too high” issue not be a landlord issue?
It’s a greed issue. “They get x amount so I should too.” Then someone decides it’s a new year so the prices go up and the same thing happens (now accelerated by algorithms that grab data about market prices) and the landlords look around again and say “they’re getting more so I should too, it would be stupid for me not to!”
Who else sets the prices for them to be too high in the first place if not landlords?
My uneducated solution is price caps based on some calculation of a typical income for the local area (NOT a family income, we don’t need more of this “2 people are required” bullshit.) If that means some people that could afford more are getting cheap rent I don’t care as long as it means the typical Joe who can’t afford to buy has options that don’t leave them perpetually unable to save. If that leaves some people unmotivated to rent that’s fine too, in my experience there are plenty of homeowners who want/need to rent their basement/garage/etc to cover their expenses.
Our individualistic culture makes people incapable of seeing the problem systemically, and instead they cry when they feel like a critique of the system feels like a personal assault of an individual’s character.
It’s not fucking about landlords ‘being decent people’, it’s about a system that profits from the systemic disenfranchisement of the working class.
In the same way ‘all cops are bastards’ because the profession is built around protecting the capitalist class by oppressing the working class, ‘all landlords are bastards’ too.
Stop crying and provide housing for yourself then.
Once the Class Conciousness is ripe!Mao has entered the chat
