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Steam gets all of my gaming money until other vendors support Linux.
Not only does Steam support Linux, they’re growing it.
Steam has got to be the most loved monopoly ever. It’s inherently toxic to the gaming community in ways that aren’t instantly apparent but it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that it’s not a great thing that every game you buy isn’t yours, it’s effectively an unlimited time rental that can be withdrawn for a multitude of reasons. GOG and the like actually sell you the game proper such that it’s yours to keep forever no matter what happens to GOG. But still they sit at single digit market share for anything that’s not their own game and even Cyberpunk 2077 only sold 10% of copies on GOG…
Steam doesn’t enforce anything. They provide a very weak opt-in DRM that they literally tell developers they should expect will by bypassed. There are plenty of actual DRM free games on Steam.
People use Steam instead of GoG because Steam works and provides a wide array of value adding features and GoG doesn’t.
Ddgewddtrfft
If it’s actual ownership instead of availability, then according to GOG’s own EULA, you don’t own the games there either.
Wouldn’t even matter anyway. If either service dies the games are gone unless you go through the hassle of manually backing up every single one - which you can do with the majority of games on Steam too.
No, you can’t.
And that’s a big “unless”. I actually do have a stored backup of my GOG library installers (of the ones where I don’t own a physical copy, anyway). GOG could disappear into thin air tomorrow and I would lose zero access. Not so with Steam.
Yes you can. Just because you don’t make a backup of one over the other doesn’t mean it isn’t possible. lol
I don’t think people get what I’m saying.
On Steam you can back up game files only in the tiny fraction of games that ship with no DRM. Cases where you have to break DRM to make a backup are not “making a backup”. If that’s your standard you may as well just download a cracked copy later.
On GOG you specifically get an option to download a stand-alone installer for every game in the service.
Not the same.
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How could I possibly have it backwards? I manually backed up my installers. I don’t even know what you think “having it backwards” means. You think I’m misremembering downloading the installer files and backing them up? You think I did that on Steam and somehow forgot?
No, I don’t have it backwards, that’s how it works. There are terabytes of data on my backup drives to account for it.
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“You know what I am talking about colloquially”
I must not, because I see zero difference between Steam and GoG in this regard other than the fact that Steam provides a bunch of side services that GoG does not. Otherwise they’re both just selling you a revokable license to play a game.
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It kinda sounds like you dont either, tho
“I’m right and you’re wrong”. Colloquially, of course.
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People prefer Steam to GoG because Steam is a massively better product than GoG. It’s not complicated.
I mean it’s not technically a monopoly. Steam’s advantage is that Valve is a private company and can do what they like, it’s not without problems, but it does a great job where it needs to.
Steam also sells DRM-free games, so that’s just mis-information. You can copy the files anywhere and use them without Steam running, it’s entirely on the developers/publishers to make that decision. Cyberpunk 2077 is DRM-free on Steam, just like GOG. Steamworks just has an incredible feature set for developers to use, so for multiplayer games it’s unlikey to see DRM-free anymore as people would rather invite via a friendslist than sharing IPs directly, having to open ports etc.
Not misinformation. GOG requires games to be DRM free to sell there, Steam provides first party DRM (being crackable doesn’t make it not DRM) and it actively encourages developers publishing on Steam to double down with more GaaS features and secondary DRM in their instructions to developers.
Why do people feel the need to shill for billionaires? I don’t get it.
Nobody is shilling. It’s completely up to the developers/publishers to sell DRM-free or not - CDPR aren’t the holy grail company you think they are.
every game you buy isn’t yours, it’s effectively an unlimited time rental that can be withdrawn for a multitude of reasons. GOG and the like actually sell you the game proper such that it’s yours to keep forever no matter what happens to GOG
This is mis-information - every game you buy on Steam is not DRM and thus is not subject to the ‘digital license’ approach.
Look, I like GOG, I will buy from there if I can’t get a DRM-free version on Steam and the deal is good, I own many GOG titles.
Steam 1000% needs to label what games have DRM or not and embrace that with a category.Nobody is shilling? This entire post is called “Steam keeps on winning”, sharing a link to an article about how other competitors are becoming less relevant. The shilling is gleeful at this point.
And hey, no, I don’t claim that CDPR is “the holy grail”. You want me to give them crap? I have multiple active grudges. Why is Galaxy so slow when fully packed? Why can’t I cull games imported from integrations if they’re not gonna bother to cache the DB and insist on auditing on load? Why is the browser in their launcher slower than opening their own store on Firefox? Will they ever stop with the surveys about the Discovery view? It’s bad enough that you started inserting ads in the launcher, you don’t need to pester me about it every time I open the thing.
I don’t need GOG to be perfect to tell you Valve isn’t your friend. GOG is, though, actually DRM free. Steam is not. They will let you upload a DRM free game if you want, but they don’t recommend it, they actively want you to use Steamworks, and even when you do that, they recommend you add a second layer of DRM to your game.
That sucks.
They also overmonetize their games aggressively, insist on rather toxic MTX and aggressively crowdsource as many parts of their business as they can, just like any other tech startup.
And they have the most feature-rich launcher, great controller support and it’s cool that they want to safeguard against Windows having a monopoly on PC gaming.
Neither of those big companies is my firend or yours and if they want either of us to sell their product they should pay us for it.
Why are you shilling for GoG? This whole comment thread is so funny to me. Like a hour ago I saw comment on another post that said GoG is turning to shit. If I find it I will copy it here.
Here it is:
Pushing a shitty launcher, selling abandoned games, selling incomplete games, putting DRMs on multiplayer, selling a lot of low quality games, not expanding their overworked team despite the profits they make, etc. It got much worse with the success of the Witcher3 and has kept on going down.
I think there’s even a browser extension that is used to mark shitty games on gog, that have missing features or DRMs. Funny for a platform that has the motto of selling hand-picked, DRM-free games.
Not misinformation. GOG requires games to be DRM free to sell there
Misinformation: GoG allows DRM games in their store: https://www.gog.com/forum/general/drm_on_gog_list_of_singleplayer_games_with_drm/page1
Also to address another common misinformation, the one about steam being rent and Gog being buy, this is from GoG terms and licences:
You have the personal right to use GOG content and services. This right can be suspended or stopped by us in some situations.
Long story short, they’re also selling you a licence, same thing steam gets shitted for.
Steam provides first party DRM (being crackable doesn’t make it not DRM)
True
and it actively encourages developers publishing on Steam to double down with more GaaS features and secondary DRM in their instructions to developers.
False. Valve does not encourage or force you to use their DRM, in fact you don’t need to use Steam’s API to publish a game on steam, it just makes your life a lot easier than having to manually write the code to do the things that Steam already does for you, so most lazy Devs just rely on that. Some Devs don’t, and those games are sold on Steam as well, which is why you can simply copy them and play on other machines, even multiplayer, I know this because I’ve done that with several games to show them to my friends and push them to buy them.
Why do people feel the need to shill for billionaires? I don’t get it.
You’re shilling for Gog, you’re attacking steam because you don’t know that they sell DRM-free games, saying GoG is better without knowing that GoG sells DRMd games, so they’re the same.
Steam provides first party DRM (being crackable doesn’t make it not DRM) and it actively encourages developers publishing on Steam to double down with more GaaS features and secondary DRM in their instructions to developers.
The copy of Krita that I bought on Steam not only has no DRM at all, it even runs completely independent of Steam. I have several DRM-free games from Steam as well. It’s definitively optional.
I think it says something that people still prefer Steam in spite of all that. Even people who pirate games appreciate it. Convenience is a wonderful thing and most people don’t really care to own if the game they want will be there when and if they need it.
Convenience is paramount. It’s why the in-app purchases that are most likely to be bought in games by the most people (not counting whales) are ones that make the game experience more convenient, rather than just giving special currency.
Steam has got to be the most loved monopoly ever. It’s inherently toxic to the gaming community
Steam isn’t a monopoly but Windows is. Money earned on Steam goes into developing open source technologies that undermine the Windows monopoly.
I have been playing computer games since the late 90s and for me steam hits all the important things with few of the downsides that existed prior to an online storefront.
Games had DRM prior to steam and other online services. A key you had to keep track of, something from the instructions, or in some cases an online authentication process. All of these could be lost or the online component be retired and you ended up needing to hack the games anyway.
Games often had issues over time due to a lack of ongoing support. Driver issues or other problems might cause a game that previously worked to fail after a decade. The earliest game I remember with that issue was Crescent Hawks Revenge which was tied to the processor speed and over time it sped up so fast that it was unplayable as games got faster. Again, it was necessary to hack the game or the PC to address the issue. If the games did have updates, they were often tedious to find and install.
Games on PC have pretty much always been a license to use and not actual ownership. If you read the EULA you were banned from hacking to fix the issues I already mentioned just to get it to play.
Then there is a personal thing I noticed which was that I didn’t want to put forth any effort for older games just to play them. Like, sure I might want to give it a spin for an hour, but not if it took an hour to address issues due to changes in hardware or software since I last played it.
So along comes steam and while it had a rough start, it solved all of my computer gaming issues. Games were perpetually maintained, so if I bought an older game it would most likely work on current hardware. Sales meant I could afford to try out new games at a decent price! Games updated automatically when one was available and I didn’t need to do anything extra! Every game I have purchased from steam can be downloaded on a whim and be expected to play. Maybe there are some exceptions, but I haven’t run into any.
Only one game I purchased stopped working because it was multiplayer only and the servers shut down. Owning it outright wouldn’t have mattered.
While it is possible that steam could shit the bed at any point in time and I could lose all the games on it, the value for the money has been totally worth it. I am glad that there are alternates and that GOG exists for DRM free versions of games, but the ease of use and reliability that I have had with steam has made it worth far more than I have paid into it.
We’ve been really lucky that Steam hasn’t been enshittified yet but it’s just a matter of time, so I am happy that alternatives like GOG exist, and yes = even alternatives like Epic. Doesn’t matter if my library is spread around if I can just launch anything from playnite anyway.
I think the points about GOG being DRM free and selling you the game (not just a license) need to be made as often as possible.
I am going to try to look there first from now on because of this.
I think the points about GOG being DRM free and selling you the game (not just a license) need to be made as often as possible.
Just because there is no DRM on GOG doesn’t mean that the games aren’t just licensed. Copyright law doesn’t get magically circumvented. You aren’t allowed to sell the GOG downloads. All GOG allows you to do is to make backups of the games you licensed.
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True, Epic could have provided good competition, but instead of gaining the trust of potential users and building a feature rich store - they immediately went down the most anti-consumer route they could with exclusive deals and free game bait, all while pretending they are the good buys and Valve are an evil-mega corp. The pot calling the kettle black. So yeah, fuck Epic Games.
The free games system isnt anti consumer. And the exclusives are an industry standard, that steam also is involved in.
You have a laundry list of actual hostile practices, why did you pick the two that arent?
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If you think me giving you things you want that cost you money elsewhere for free is anti-you, you shouldnt be having this conversation. Full stop. Video games arent meth.
No, steam isn’t “also involved” in paying publishers to take their games off of other platforms.
Steam “exclusives” exist because every other platform is too dogshit to bother making a business relationship with.
Exclusives are not paying publishers to remove games from platforms. Those are two completely different things.
If you do not understand that simple fact, you probably shouldnt be wading into this discussion.
Yes, they are. That’s what exclusive means.
Only being on one platform because no other platform makes business sense is not an exclusive. An exclusive means an exclusivity contract.
But even if you lie and pretend your version is an “exclusive”, it absolutely is not “steam playing the exclusive game”, because that unconditionally would require steam actively incentivizing staying off of other platforms.
Don’t bother, this guy is just a troll. Look at all his other responses lmao.
You let me know when you parse this out
It was to the point where people were flat-out cheering for Epic Games joining the scene
Windows users maybe, Linux users liked that Steam Machines resulted in a bunch of native Linux ports of high-profile games such as Borderlands 2 or X-Com.
I mean, yes, there will always be a minority (often quite vocal) who will cheer on the failure of any platform. No matter how good or bad it is.
They weren’t by any stretch, an effective representation of the userbase. Most either stuck with Steam or installed the Epic launcher as well to get some free games.
Not sure anyone in this thread knows what the word “monopoly” means. Steam has competition, it all just comparatively sucks.
My biggest problem with Epic store is their push for exclusives. I understand exclusives on platforms (PS vs XBox) - those are physically different hardware and are closed platforms. But we are talking about PC games, it is the same platform. I want to chose the best product (best delivery system - STEAM or Epic Store, or whatever), and not being forced by the power of monopoly to use a particular launcher.
I would happily use epic if it wasn’t for the exclusive garbage they pull. They are a garbage platform.
I don’t see the problem with exclusives considering it’s a guarantee for the devs that they’ll have an income instead of playing the popularity with influencers lottery by releasing on all platforms.
After that I’ve got a link on my desktop so I don’t give a crap what launcher is running in the background.
OK, your choice is different than mine. You see how good to have a choice?
I’m just pointing out that being mad about exclusivity when it can actually be what keeps devs afloat is a pretty bad argument.
Do you have a job or do you beg for money and spend it on lottery tickets?
I do get your point, I’d rather have an exclusive game than no game at all, but that isn’t what’s happening with Epic exclusives a lot of the time. Most of the time they just buy exclusive rights to games that were going to come to PC anyway, sometimes right before release date.
It’s still the devs that agree to it in exchange for guaranteed income instead of releasing at large and hoping for success, Epic is just playing the game… Heck, in my mind it’s the devs that should take the flak in this situation!
They’ve also confirmed they wouldn’t do it for games where the devs promised to release on other launchers after the backlash with one of the games they bought exclusivity rights to.
I do not understand this point. If market can not support the game, then there should be no such game. There are many publishers and venture capitalists that invest into game making and only like one of them (Epic) requires exclusivity on PC space.
That would work if all quality games were successful (it isn’t the case at all) and if devs didn’t need to eat or pay rent (it isn’t the case either).
Exclusives aren’t exclusive (lulz) to Epic either, you see them on other launchers even for very successful games (you can only get Minecraft from Microsoft for example and it’s not a game that was originally developed by them). Sure some people invest in developers in exchange for a share of the profit made, these people are in the investment business, not in the publishing business.
It’s funny how people agree to give their employer exclusive use of whatever they produce for them in exchange for money, but if a developer does the equivalent then the same people are angry at the “employer”…
I say good for the devs if it guarantees that their studio will stay open and they’re able to produce more games instead of spending years on a project only for it to lead them to bankruptcy when it releases to little interest from the public.
All other “exclusives” are simply companies selling games by themselves. Your example of Mojang (creator of Minecraft) only confirms that since Microsoft purchased Mojang. There is no exclusivity of Microsoft with … Microsoft.
Again, I do not understand your argument about devs paying rent, etc. Majority of games are not exclusives on Epic (or any other store, except if they sell it themselves). Thus, there must be a way to do so without being exclusives. And if you are talking about support in terms of investments and advancements - publishers do that. They did it forever for PC games, nothing was broken to fix it by exclusivity.
publishers do thatYes, and the game’s publisher has an exclusivity deal in place and the devs can’t turn around and decide to give their game to another publisher.
Exclusivity deals has been part of art history (and employment in general) forever. There’s nothing new about what Epic is doing. You see it for music composers, visual artists, poets, even writers! But somehow PC game devs are in a different category and are supposed to just hope for the best and release on platforms that doesn’t give them a guaranteed compensation for their work… Well I say good for them if both systems exist now!
nothing was broken to fix it by exclusivityIf it was the case, devs wouldn’t sign those deals. They’re not new and there’s nothing to be happy about that the biggest distributor on the market doesn’t have to give any income guarantees to the people that put in the hours to create the product that they sell.
How hard is it to understand that it’s guaranteed income and that is important to some people? There’s a whole lot of things that the majority of people do that a minority isn’t comfortable with, that argument is extremely weak.
Go check /r/gamedev and you’ll find tons of discussions of people that thought they were releasing something that would financially compensate for all the time they spent on it and for having to leave their job to work full time on their project only to see it fail miserably because no one paid attention to it no matter the quality while they saw another product of similar quality get picked up by a steamer and it just exploded in popularity.
You never answered the question, do you have a job or expect to make it by winning the lottery?
Steam controller support is so far ahead of everybody else I find myself launching other games/launchers through Steam just to get it.
Tried to get my controller to register in Jedi Fallen Order and the solution was not to add the game but the EA launcher itself as non-steam game.
On the one hand valve having a monopoly is bad for the industry and it’s consumers.
On the other hand nobody seems to be trying to provide a truly competitive service without also being far more anti-consumer than valve from the get go.
So GOG doesn’t exist?
I should really start pirating copies of games that I buy on Steam. Servers and licenses don’t last forever.
I keep meaning to buy a dvd writer…
I still have a couple in operation, but mostly it’s for ingest. These days all my backups go into a NAS, including my GOG installers. Honestly, given the increasing waves of (sigh) enshittification it’s becoming more and more justifiable to keep your own home network services, storage included.
Steam feels like a library with a store attached. Epic feels like a store with a library attached. If they changed the way they presented the epic app then I’d be more inclined to use their services.
If Steam could just ban 3rd party launchers in Steam - that would be great.
Need to login to rockstar/uplay/gog/EA account? Do it in-game…
EA would pull their own games from Steam before they would ditch their own launcher…
But, counterpoint: EA would pull their own games from Steam before they would ditch their own launcher.
I bought an Index bc I thought it was truly promising. It certainly delivered with games like Alex and Boneworks. I’m sad that there is so much proprietary bs and I don’t get some really good titles.
Still better than Meta vr headset
Indeed but I’d love to play Asgard’s Wrath 2 ever.
Valve’s VR efforts have cooled—the all-in-one Meta Quest 3 is the headset to get right now
Fuck Meta, Valve Index is still better
Been collecting games since 2007 - I love my untouched library.
Amass ! AMASS !!
meanwhile ive finally stopped using steam! very happy and proud to say i only purchase on itch and GOG now! (as well as a few indie stores) hope i can get a few friends to join me.
edit: i do not think less of people for using steam! i just like the idea of having friends who share my personal philosophies. im aware that im abnormal, lol.
whats your reason(s) to ditch steam? (honest question)
Philosophically, obviously I’m against DRM blah blah and no matter how easy it is to crack I just don’t really like the idea of spending money on a license to play something instead of the something itself. I also don’t really like contributing to the online services monopoly steam seems to be maintaining. There’s a myriad smaller stuff that drives me away from steam that I don’t really feel like explaining, but those two are the main philosophical reasons.
Practically, for reasons I obviously won’t disclose, my account is at risk of spontaneous termination if they wanted to, so its not really worth investing more money into my walking time bomb of an account.
I get why steam makes sense for most people and I don’t have any intention to shame people for… well, being normal where I’m not. I just like having friends who share my personal preferences!
Whwthetnetfn
Is that not also true of itch and GOG?
You gain access to the installer files. This means that, if you wanted, you could back up them up on as many hard drives as you want and have them for the rest of the your life. Steam, on the other hands, you are purchasing a license to play the game.
This depends on the game. The DRM is opt-in. A lot of the games that are available on GOG are also DRM free on Steam. For other games, they may have DRM, but its usually because the publisher isn’t willing to sell without, meaning its not on GOG anyway.
Ubisoft has proven itself to remove games from the market and become unplayable. You also legally agree in the Steam User Agreement that all games in Steam don’t belong to you. This isn’t a legal copyrighted material but the concept of ownership of the game at all in Steam is legally prohibited to own.
That sounds like a reason to stop buying Ubisoft games, not switch from Steam.
You also legally agree in the Steam User Agreement that all games in Steam don’t belong to you.
Pretty sure that’s in almost every game EULA ever. May be a 1-up for Itch but I’m pretty sure almost all games on GOG have similar terms.
That’s every license of every commercial game no matter how it’s sold, unless it’s open source. So technically even with GoG you only get the license to play. You can only use the installer to install and play the game. You can’t resell it or decompile it for commercial use since you don’t own the binary code.
You can do the same with the Steam installation files for games that do not have DRM - those that do wouldn’t appear in Itch or GOG in the first place.
You don’t own games generally. It’s always a license for software use. You may own the game, if you buy the company and the license is fully under its control.
Software is not a product. And there is no guarantee you will be able to run it forever, even if you made a copy of your entire setup. It’s especially the case with Windows, because it’s bound to a specific hardware that will break one day. Microsoft also cares less and less about gamers (see what they do with their operating system for consumers) and they have a way out with XBox. My bet is that Windows is not making money for Microsoft anymore and it will degrade more and more. Gabe knows it and has a strategy against it. If you’re a gamer and want have games on PC, use Linux and support the good cause.
Way ahead of you. Been a Linux user for half my life :)
hope i can get a few friends to join me.
Maybe if CD Project put their big Witcher and Cyberpunk money into Wine, SDL, DXVK, Linux HDR support, etc. instead of licensing Unreal Engine from Epic for upcoming games…
haha lutris is more than satisfactory for me
What is it about people here thet worship this company. I can remember several years ago people screaming about how much they hate them.
It feels really weird how so many people here seem to just…be okay with steam being to gaming what chrome is to browsers? Its for all intends and purposes a monopoly and just because they barely support linux its all happy sunshine and roses?
People should have a sledgehammer pointed at them at all times just in case, cause yall know, no matter how good the intention may or may not be for whoever gaben selects as the next big boss (not like hes that all good saviors either), once gaben is out, hes out and things will get worse sooner or later.
I don’t like that steam is a de facto monopoly but it’s up to their competitors to make a better product. Steam has features that benefit users, like steam input and remote play together, that other launchers are light years away from. Steam also doesn’t require drm, it’s just offered to devs to use at their discretion. Lastly, steam let’s developers generate as many keys as they want and sell them off platform. The only requirement is that pricing has to have parity.
For a monopoly, they are shockingly consumer friendly.
I agree. I would love to have an alternative, but there just isn’t one, and I don’t think it’s Valve’s fault.
Valve also hasn’t really done what other monopolistic companies have done, which is use their advantages to expand into other areas and crush the smaller players there.
They have hardon for Gabe.
