this and other subs related to this game want their champion to be better and have more tools or have no counterplay.
this is bad approach to any champion design and game design especially that this game is PvP not a PvE one.
you can have all champions be overpowered if the receiving end is the environment and not a real person playing the game. you can allow yasuo to ult someone globally if the enemy isn’t a real player or it will be very unfun to play against and this will allow for very unhealthy gameplay.
most players complaining don’t know that these weaknesses are made to give opponents room to play the game.
some mordekaiser players want abilities to hit faster, because they are too slow vs dashes and mobile enemies. but did they realize that there are champions that don’t have dashes?
and does a strong champion at level 1 should be stat checking all other champions from beginning to full build?
some champions are designed to fall off at some point or scale up at certain point. the falling ones should use their earl power to create a lead and snowball it, while the scaling ones should avoid any losses and play it safer till they reach their powerspike.
some warwick players want his W to not get disabled when being hit by enemy champion. again this is removal of counterplay to the champion.
if warwick is running with 35% up to 137.5% bonus movement speed towards an enemy without any counterplay, this will be extremely unhealthy for the game as you are just getting outrun by enemy warwick after trading with your opponent and die.
also simple buffs like 5/10 movement speed exist and +10 damage buffs exist, +30 HP buff exists too. some champions are getting weaker with time but not in absolute need for a rework or major update like players want.
example for champions that got updates and were nerfed many many times afterwards because they wanted to see them in higher elos.
J4 was buffed by adding AD% scaling to his W resulted in him getting nerfed many times because of that.
amumu 2 Q stacks resulted in him being nerfed many times after the buff, he went to support role then got nerfed again because he was too good at what he does.
master yi choosing where to land after his Q and the many on hits on his Q were followed by nerfs too.
rammus self slow removal led to him suffering so many nerfs because he can just run with the W on and chase enemies hitting them with autos that scale with armor.
if you fail to make a play that you want to with your champion, you can check if it’s possible to do it in first place instead of blaming your champion for being X years old and new ones can do it better.
maybe you are running at someone in safe position already despite him being low HP and you get your speed towards him.
maybe you should hold your Q as morde if enemy dash is up.
what do you think? am i overreacting? did i miss something?
Bro, I just want Waricks bugs fixed.
we want all bugs to be fixed.
I laughed at Azzapp’s post on Twitter. He said that Vel’koz Q should get missing HP damage because getting the enemy low HP with a weak champ is a skill itself. What he doesn’t think about is the other “immobile weak mage” who is gonna suffer from that change because he is weaker relative to Vel’koz. I still think OTPs can’t be unbiased.
I understand your point, but there is such a thing as having “too much counterplay”.
You brought up Mordekaiser. Mordekaiser suffers exactly of that. There are too many things the opponents can do to shut him out completely, both within and outside of lane.
Mordekaiser is a champion who NEEDS to be close to you to play the game, like, at all. And that is fine. Many champions do as well. For example, someone like Irelia doesn’t really have any range either.
The main difference between both however, is that Irelia has her Q and her Q resets, she has her stun, she has a long range slowing R, so even if she can’t walk up to you and auto attack, she has a variety of ways to close said gap and starting her gameplan, which really is just auto-attacking you to death throwing out a Q here and there, similarly to Morde.
Mordekaiser on the other hand, needs to land E. A long range, narrow spell that is also slow and very very reactable. If he cannot land, he does not get a way in. And how often can he throw it out? Like once every 20 seconds. This is a very telegraphed ability that you can dodge even if you don’t have any dashes in your kit. Mordekaiser is reliant on his opponents either being melee or being bad, to play the game at all. That’s the problem.
Counterplay is fine, in moderation. For example, something that doesn’t have counterplay in on itself is the AD Carry class a whole. They have long range, or at least longer range than anyone who isn’t a mage, they have high damage, they aren’t gated by cooldowns, and that high damage not only has a high uptime, it’s also not dodgeable, compared to a generic mage poke spell like a Lux E for example.
And yes, they are squishy, but that squishiness does not come into play if you cannot get to them. It does not matter if you have 100 or 10000 HP if I can never touch you, and even the natural counters to AD Carries can be completely shut out by a support, hence why at a pro level, the best assassins are not the ones who can kill priority targets the fastest and with the least amount of counterplay possible, but the ones who can attempt to kill someone, fail, and then either survive for a bit or straight up escape.
And why can I never touch you? Well, it’s because my only way in has too much counterplay on your side. That’s it. Basically, in order for me to play the game, I am 100% reliant on you fucking up.
And that is honestly ok, if they make it easy for you to fuck up. But that is simply not the case with Mordekaiser, or Illaoi, or Yorick, or tons of other champs who fucking dumpster silver and below, but cannot hold a candle to even Diamond players.
morde and ire are very different champions with different purpose, so i am not sure why they are being compared here for their target access
Morde is meant to fight other melee champs - the frontline for example, whereas Ire prefers to go on backline and ranged with her dashes
I don’t actually want buffs for my champions, the champion alone is rarely ever the problem. (Except for zed, he is forced to hydra build cuz lethality is just troll)
Ornn, sion, zac, sejuani in a nutshell are very strong champions with clear strengths and weaknesses, they does not need buffs in the slightest. The problem I have is with the item system and recent champ design.
It’s really hard to be happy playing a tank when champions like yone/ksante/jax can be just as durable and threatening without building tank. Then there’s also tank killers like fiora/Gwen/vayne who by design destroy you with %hp damage, yet are still strong enough to fight other bruisers. (Camille got thrown out of that list she’s just weak.)
These champs honestly wouldn’t even be that bad if the item system didn’t make it aids to fight them. You can’t kill a jax/fiora no matter how bad they are once they have divine sunderer, Bork is just overstatted, yone can be equally tanky as you while dealing 10x dmg with hullbreaker, every ADC now builds Lord Dominks because it’s efficient even against assassins and mages can buy a first item mythic that is a anti-tank but is also good against non tanks xD
TLDR champs are annoying but Liandrys, Divine sunderer, Hullbreaker (on shit like yone) and Lord dominiks needs changes cuz this shit is stupid
Yeah I don’t know. Some champions have been overpowered for a while and the excuse has always been “but they’re hard to master and you need to reward them”.
I mean fine, but when said champions have 0 counterplay (and by that I don’t mean hurrdurr trynda no counterplay, I mean actual competitive champions with great laning, scaling, sustain, that are immovable in lane and incredibly strong otherwise, that you can’t beat alone except if they make glaring mistakes), where do you draw the line? When do you realize they’re just overpowered?While I get that there’s limits to “every champion should be balanced around proplay” because Master Yi having 95% winrate in low elo is a problem, I don’t mind some champions having 45% winrate in normal play because they’re incredibly broken on skilled users.
which champs have been OP for a while?
I just want my champ to have more tools… tired of getting shit on the higher i climb just because players know how to avoid brands dmg at higher ranks.
definitely agree that it’s hard to balance champions for every elo.
riot balances to keep the game exciting and fresh, not to reach a balanced game state
Morde needs nerfs, not buffs
But in response, I think if you read most [character name] mains subreddits, you see they don’t want their champ to be so overturned cause it brings nerfs. Most of the ones I’m in for champs I play often (myself included) just wanna feel balanced, like they’re actually viable options to play the game.
Some of my fave champs are C tier and lower. They’re not impactful on the game enough to pick right now and that’s a problem, because why offer like 150 champs when probably only 70% are worth playing (being relatively generous, considering the better metas cover maybe 10% of champs).
As riot continues to add champs, it just means more will get forgotten, go longer without being considered and ultimately they’re useless until a buff comes their way.
But yes, not every champ will fit every role or be good against every comp. That’s fine and counterplay is definitely part of LoL.
I didnt read, but I wish all champions were viable. I hate the idea of having a champion that isn’t ever worth learning, because at that point do they even exist? Why are they even in the game? No one is picking them, no one is banning thing, they exist nowhere inside the game except maybe for trolls. Thats why I think every champ should be viable in every rank.
Yes there is a natural bias people have towards their own champions. I myself have advocated for ap fighter items for 5 years rather than champion specific changes buy I will admit to missing the days when malzahar mid was a viable carry mage rather than an ukt bot.