I was going through Pine64’s page again after I found the latest KDE announcement. With that said, I seem to see a lot of issues with firmware on the Pine, whilst the Librem is just plain out of budget for me. Was interested in how many people here run a Linux mobile as a daily driver, and how has your experience been?

I’m considering purchasing the Pine but I’d like a better screen, more RAM and a better CPU. Don’t know if I should wait for a new model to be released (are they even planning to do that? Is the company active?). I will only really use it to browse the Web, and might even look to desolder a couple of parts that I know I won’t use.

Thanks.

Edit: I am willing to watch content and use banking apps from the browser. Do you think it’ll be fit for me?

Edit 2: overall, I am much saddened about the state of affairs regarding private computing on the go. I desperately hope that Linux on mobile takes off, even though its incubation looks disheartening at the moment. Thank you everyone for your comments.

  • Psyklax@lemmy.ml
    521·
    9 months ago

    My problem with linux phones was the hardware. Either far too expensive or too cheap and slow. And the cellular radio is ABSOLUTELY PROPRIETARY.

    I would get one at a $300 price point with 12 hour battery life that can play HD video without hiccups. Also would be nice to have open source baseband drivers in it.

    I’ve got really low standards that haven’t been met.

  • xarexyouxmadx@lemmy.world
    39·
    9 months ago

    I looked into this for myself but I was told a lot of what has already been said here and decided to go with a pixel + graphene OS .

    I’m probably sticking with this type of setup until there’s a proper Linux phone that can be easily used as a daily driver.

    I think the key is patience. One day I think we’ll have something that will be able to daily drive Linux that won’t feel like you’re using the alpha release of android.

  • trivial_wannabe@lemmy.world
    23·
    9 months ago

    I used a pinephone as my daily driver for about a month. Importantly, this was 3~4 years ago, things could be better now.

    My take at the time: The battery life was bad, the phone was slow, MMS did not work, making a receiving calls was iffy at best.

    I really really hope this improves/has improved over time. Android gets more and more difficult to de-google. A linux phone would solve a lot of privacy issues (not all, but some)

    • MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.worldOP
      3·
      9 months ago

      I hope so too. However, that doesn’t seem to be the case. The PinePhone Pro is still treated as a development device by PostmarketOS, for example

  • rufus@discuss.tchncs.de
    21·
    9 months ago

    Forget the pinephone as a daily driver. It is nice to play around with and having linux on your phone is awesome. But you can’t really use it as a daily driver. You’ll try it and it’s going to end up in the drawer of unfinished projects. Trust me, I own a pinephone and I know other people who do.

    There’s nothing wrong with it. Just like 50 mild annoyances with anything you’re trying to do with it and on top it’s super slow, compared to any other smartphone.

    As I read, the phone by Purism isn’t much better and it’s really expensive.

      • rufus@discuss.tchncs.de
        121·
        9 months ago

        Yeah, I think so, too. It doesn’t have to be this way. I mean this is mainly due to the way ARM hardware works, lack of good drivers, maintenance and dedication by the manufacturers of that hardware. And everything is quite fragmented. In theory we could have a hardware platform that has good open-source drivers and is well-supported. The Pinephone was an attempt to establish one platform that people could focus on. But it has quite some limitations and also hardware/design issues.

        And Linux isn’t quite there yet. I mean I love Linux and it can run on embedded devices very well. But things like connected standby (for example receiving chat messages while the hardware sleeps and saves power) just isn’t implemented in a desktop environment that was made for computers. And also not in a chat application that was made for computers. So, set aside the hardware and driver issues, we have another issue with Linux software that wasn’t made to run on smartphones.

        There is a way around that and that is to add those capabilities to the Linux kernel. And also give applications means to stay connected in the background, adapt to different screen sizes, rotate the screen and evict themselves from RAM. It’s kind of what Android is. It builds upon the Linux kernel and adds lots of stuff that is specifically useful on smartphones.

        I hope someday some of those techniques get adopted into the mainline Linux kernel and also the frameworks the desktop software uses.

        • MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.worldOP
          71·
          9 months ago

          I hope so too. I wouldn’t be as mad if Android was open and we could put it on different devices, but we can’t. Manufacturers lock their devices in so many ways.

          Thanks for your great reply

          • rufus@discuss.tchncs.de
            6·
            9 months ago

            Thank you. I completely agree. We can’t do stuff ourselves, my Pixel 4a is End of Life now and all the proprietary parts of the system won’t be updated anymore, which is a shame because the hardware is still perfectly fine.

            And I hate the business decisions Google makes. Android is built upon Linux and the core is supposed to be free software. But then they move more and more stuff into their proprietary Google services packages. Like the proper keyboard with swipe typing, the better calendar app, text to speech, push notifications and all of the payment stuff. I personally replaced everything on the phone with a custom ROM, and did not install the google services. But I had to find alternatives to all of that and some things really don’t work as well. It’s a hassle and some things just don’t work at all. Like some stuff that requires in-app payment. I don’t care too much, because I get most of my Apps from F-Droid anyways and they’re open-source. But I can’t pay with my phone in the supermarket, can’t rent those silly electric scooters and a few other things.

            • MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.worldOP
              2·
              9 months ago

              I tend to use my credit card for most of my purchases, online or in-person. In doing so, I haven’t come across the problem of payments you describe, although I’m unaware if the apps I use utilise Google’s API in the back-end to do this (for example, does the Amazon app use some Android API to process my payment using a credit card?).

              I think I’d be fine without most Google apps except for Maps, where OpenStreetMap has not served me well so fat (unfortunate, since I would like to use it but it is not as reliable in my experience). I can do my banking in the browser, and consume my video content (YouTube/Peertube/LBRY) in the browser anyway.

              I’m going to revisit the Murena mobiles again, and I’ll reiterate how disappointed I am that the FP5 is not available in the US. At this point, I’ll pin my hopes on KernelSU for the next few years (hoping I don’t have to compile my own kernel, I’d like to get a cheap device running the 5.10 kernel or those after it), but consumer devices don’t have hardware killswitches or privacy features or replaceable parts either (and iFixit doesn’t cover every device).

              This was a long comment, and I appreciate this discourse with you. Thanks again.

              • rufus@discuss.tchncs.de
                2·
                9 months ago

                I’m always happy to talk to people ;-)

                Yeah, paying with credit card also works for me. And I use the browser a lot for stuff like that. Just the added layers in the apps sometimes don’t work. Like when I tried riding one of those electric scooters. I was able to put in my credit card details and they got accepted, and I know my phone is capable of doing NFC, but somehow there is something else in that app that prevents me from doing the actual transaction and rent the scooter. Online-shopping and things like that work fine. I don’t need an App to use Amazon or PayPal… So I wouldn’t know either.

                Thx. I’m going to look up the de-googled phones you mentioned. I think I will try to use my Pixel as long as it works, but in theory it isn’t supported anymore and I’m supposed to buy a new one now. At least that’s what Google and GrapheneOS tell me.

                • MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.worldOP
                  2·
                  9 months ago

                  I’m holding out hope for KernelSU, in which case I won’t need to care about custom ROMs and things like safetyNET either. A root from kernel-space + a custom launcher and I won’t miss OEM android at all. The only thing I haven’t figured out is patch management, but I’ll leave that to people more intelligent than me

          • Richard@lemmy.worldEnglish
            3·
            9 months ago

            The problem is not Android. It is as open as any other Linux distribution. The problem is that manufacturers make the drivers for their hardware proprietary.

  • AnomalousBit@programming.dev
    14·
    9 months ago

    Would really love to but have yet to see basic phone functionality covered in a way that isn’t a painful compromise. Stock Android is a privacy nightmare, which is why I left it. I had some fun with Cyanogenmod back in the day, maybe there’s another de-googled Android distribution around today but since I last checked I couldn’t find one that runs on modern mainstream hardware without really jumping through some crazy hoops to establish root.

      • MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.worldOP
        113·
        9 months ago

        I would have to dispute your claims on this one. The only really modern mobiles running Lineage OS (by modern I mean released in this year and the previous year) are perhaps some European Xiaomi/Realme devices, maybe a couple of Samsungs, the last-gen OnePlus and some Motorola devices, and the Pixels.

        As I have been complaining for a long while now, the entire custom ROM market is moving towards the Pixels, which is a dreadful move in my opinion, but what I can do

      • AnomalousBit@programming.dev
        3·
        9 months ago

        Will definitely give these a look, thank you for the updates.

        Can you speak to your experience with any of these? Would love to hear a first hand account!

        • rImITywR@lemmy.worldEnglish
          5·
          9 months ago

          I ran Lineage on my OnePlus 5 for a few years until I replaced it with a Pixel 8 last month. The first thing I did with it was install GrapheneOS. I have not had any issues so far.

    • helenslunch@feddit.nl
      4·
      9 months ago

      Would really love to but have yet to see basic phone functionality covered in a way that isn’t a painful compromise. Stock Android is a privacy nightmare, which is why I left it.

      I’ve been using GrapheneOS for about a year now and it’s a giant leap in privacy and security (much better than iOS), with very little compromise in functionality.

  • Spectacle8011@lemmy.comfysnug.space
    10·
    9 months ago

    I have a lot to say about the Pinephone, but in the interest of not re-iterating what has been said before, I’ll just say this:

    Correctly inserting the SIM card was the most harrowing experience I’ve ever had with a phone.

  • Hiro8811@lemmy.world
    81·
    9 months ago

    Why not try lineageo OS? I’ve been daily driving it for one year now and it’s reliably if you don’t throw magisk modules at it for fun.

        • chitak166@lemmy.world
          412·
          9 months ago

          So fucking dumb how we have to look for specific models just to get support for smartphones.

          Can you image if Linux only ran on HP and dell laptops?

          • Hiro8811@lemmy.world
            4·
            9 months ago

            Unfortunately that’s moistly on maufacters. If they don’t release the kernel LOS can’t do anything. Also depending on the phone it might take a while till someone picks the phone and decides to support it. Laptops do have compatibility options. But I get what your saying, it is annoying but what did you expect from such organization?

            • EddoWagt@feddit.nl
              1·
              9 months ago

              It would be awesome if we could just install whatever like we can on pcs. On phones you still need a developer to make a specific rom for that device, we were close with Generic System Images (GSIs), but I don’t think they really went anywhere

              • Hiro8811@lemmy.world
                1·
                9 months ago

                I think you can but I’m not sure. There’s Ubuntu Touch that works on some phones but it’s really buggy

      • Hiro8811@lemmy.world
        1·
        9 months ago

        No. To root you need to extract boot.img, patch it in the app then flash it while in bootloader.

  • pathief@lemmy.world
    6·
    9 months ago

    I’d love to run a system without Google but it’s hard. I tried to run LineageOS with microg for a week or two but eventually had to install Google Play Services. Lots of hurdles with push notifications and unfortunately some apps really refused to work when they detected no play services installed. It really sadden me, to be honest. Really wanted to make it work.

    Never gave Linux phones a chance, I rely too much on apps that wouldn’t be available.

    • MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.worldOP
      3·
      9 months ago

      I’m interested in the problems you faced. I have realised that I will need GMS/MicroG for maps, and am unclear if I can get a FOSS app to host my local mail inbox without GMS. Other than that, everything else can be done in the browser (technically even maps can be used in the browser but I digress).

      Would like to know which services prevent you from leaving Google

      • pathief@lemmy.world
        2·
        9 months ago

        My first attempt was to flash the stock LineageOS and then install the microg packages from the fdroid store. I didn’t manage to get that fully working, the microg self-check would have a lot of fails due to version mismatches. I never figured out why. A lot of applications complained about the lack of play services and warned me they wouldn’t work, microg was clearly not installed properly.

        Then, I flashed the “LineageOS for MicroG” ROM, which is a LineageOS fork with microg already installed. I had to enable all microg services but the self-check was 100% successful out of the box. No warnings about the lack of play services, everything was mostly working. I installed all software from Fdroid when possible and Aurora Store when not possible.

        Push notifications were a bit of a struggle at first but they did work. I still didn’t get notifications to work on Telegram, but “Telegram FOSS” fork seemed to work okay. For GPS/Maps I used Waze (which is technically owned by Google) and it worked flawlessly. I assume you can use other GPS application, I just didn’t do my research on this one. For email I am using Proton Mail, which worked as expected.

        The problematic apps were banking/financial apps, which I guess most people can live without. I’m confident the apps would work with microg but simply refused to even start. In Portugal our interbank network developed an application called “MBWAY”, which is really ingrained in the portuguese population. Most people use it. It has a ton of cool functiontionality such as sending money to other people just by using the phone number (instantly and without fees), replacing your ATM/food cards for payments and generating virtual credit cards for online shopping.

        I use MBWAY way too much (pun intended), and just decided I didn’t want to live without it. I ended up flashing stock LineageOS and their GAPPS package, which contains the play services and play store app. I still install most stuff from the Aurora and Fdroid store. The banking/financial apps are now working.

          • pathief@lemmy.world
            1·
            9 months ago

            I think the apps would work without Google Play services but they refuse to boot without it. Unfortunately since these are banking and finance apps the only alternative is not to use them.

            I own a Poco F2 Pro, ROM support is somewhat limited. CalyxOS is insupported, it seems. When this phones starts dying I’ll probably give GrapheneOS a shot!

  • treadful@lemmy.zipEnglish
    3·
    9 months ago

    Would love to. Seems like the only real option is the Purism phone but I was burned pretty hard by one of their laptops. Don’t want to roll the dice.

  • GustavoM@lemmy.worldEnglish
    33·
    9 months ago

    Does a single board computer counts as a phone? Then a Orange pi zero 3. (Not like theres anything else to do other than read/lurk online communities, code and the occasional cloud gaming nowadays, so eh.)

  • helenslunch@feddit.nl
    14·
    9 months ago

    We can’t even get widespread adoption on workstations, what are the chances we’ll ever get them on mobile?

    It’s all the same problems. There aren’t nearly enough people using it for developers to spend their time developing compatible versions of their software, much less ones with a mobile-friendly interface.

    Maybe they’ll work with PWAs but those still suck.

    • Kühe sind toll@feddit.de
      1·
      9 months ago

      There’s a simple reason to change that: use it. Recommend it to your friends. And yet there are great Linux mobile OSes(as example Graphen OS.

      • helenslunch@feddit.nl
        13·
        9 months ago

        I couldn’t possibly recommend it to anyone who is not a programmer. It doesn’t work for shit. The simplest and most basic things like just installing software is nigh-impossible for normies.