- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmy.ml
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Yesterday I bought something on Steam for the first time in many years. (I have a large Steam library, but in recent years I’ve been getting games from gog and itch instead.)
Since I hadn’t bought from Steam in a long time I figured I should read the “Steam Subscriber agreement” that you have to click to accept when you buy something. Let me just say now, the agreement is a very very bad deal for customers.
It goes to great lengths to make it very clear that you don’t own anything. You aren’t buying anything, you have no essentially rights. You are simply paying for a license subscription to use software with various conditions. Valve is able to end your subscription with no refund if you break the agreement. And the best bit:
Furthermore, Valve may amend this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use) unilaterally at any time in its sole discretion.
So by using Steam we’re putting a lot of trust in Valve; because the ‘agreement’ basically says they can do whatever they want, any time they want, for any reason they want.
Steam is quite good. I particularly appreciate their Linux support. But they are clearly using their position of dominance to make people agree to unfavourable terms. At the moment, things are fine. But make no mistake - when you use Steam, Valve has all the power. They can screw people over whenever they choose to.
With all that in mind, buying DRM free is better if you want to still have access to the software when a company decides to change direction for whatever reason.
Apparently you like to read. Open the EULA for basically any commercial software (not FOSS or open source, costs money, isn’t made by some small company, basically the same criteria as >90% of the games on Steam) and you are going to learn 2 things very quickly. First, all of them are just a license to use, and second, if there are patches or an online component you will have at least as many caveats and restrictions as what is included in the Steam TOS.
Now, I’m not saying you’re wrong or that I’m okay with this situation (I look for open source, free, then paid for all the software that lets me do whatever it is I’m trying to do), but the situation with Steam is very typical.
Terms like that matters more for some services than for others. For something like Spotify or Netflix, if they terminate the agreement it doesn’t matter much. You lose access, but there was no accumulated value. So you can just go somewhere with only minor inconvenience. Whereas on Steam, if they terminate the agreement then you could lose decades worth of accumulated games from your library - which could be very valuable. So that’s a big difference.
Now, it’s unlikely that Steam will just press delete on everyone’s account. But we can imagine a very profit-hungry leader taking over Steam and deciding to put the squeeze on their vast user-base. There are many things they could do; such as adding ads, requiring ‘consent’ to include spyware on your computer, or charging additional fees. Long term users would not be in a position to refuse these things, because their Steam library is being held as collateral.
If you trust that Steam is never going to give you up, and never going to let you down, etc. Then there is no problem. Things are currently going fine, and they may continue to be fine for a very long time. It’s just a matter of trust, and power, and hedging.
The thing here is, people will talk and if there are any serious issues, a lot of people, myself included, will have no moral objection to pirating the games they already paid for access to. And in some jurisdictions, it won’t even be illegal. Like with most enshittification situations, it isn’t going to be there one day and gone the next, so liberating your games won’t be overly difficult.
The big gotcha will be online multi-player games. If you don’t have a server, the client doesn’t matter.
Doesn’t matter, Steam offers DRM free games. Steam DRM is opt-in and can be broken by anyone in seconds, and games with other DRM have a big glowing warning on their store page. You give money to Steam for their servers that support multiplayer, their workshop, seamless patching, user forums, image hosting, controller support, Proton for Linux, SteamDB, easy multiplayer via the friends interface, achievement tracking, and a large majority cut to the developers. Your complaints apply to basically every storefront, the only way you’ll own data is by having it on your own disk which Steam lets you do.
Oh, uh, hello. How does one break this DRM, out of curiosity?
Depends on the game, sometimes you can just delete the steam dll next to the executable, others require a steam emulator which amounts to just dropping in a spoofed steam dll. I think the preferred emulator these days is Goldberg steam emu on gitlab.
Very good point. Just because Valve hasn’t screwed us over yet is no excuse for assuming they never will.
Not to say it won’t happen, but if a corporation tried to mess with steam libraries, it would raise hell like nothing the internet has ever seen.
Yeah? And what would that achieve? What the hell are gamers gonna do?
For God’s sake, we couldn’t even keep a protest going on Reddit because people were afraid of the sunk costs. People give Valve money.
If valve removed all of my purchases they would never get a single dime out of me again.
Would never be a move for them.
I think it’s more realistic for this scenario to happen to me, rather than the majority. My account with 500+ games also happens to have 30+ VAC bans.
Valve isn’t going to remove your purchases unless Valve goes bankrupt.
But make no mistake, they will do other anti-consumer and anti-competitor bullshit once Gabe leaves and the company becomes publicly traded.
Things like throttling your download speed unless you pay their subscription. Being forced to watch ads whenever you browse your library.
This is why we should NEVER put so much trust in a company that they can build up a monopoly, like all those Gabe stans are doing.
This one corpos.
I just threw up a little bit thinking about that future that 100% is coming when the business school fuckheads take over valve.
There is no “good will” towards customers, it’s everything is a service and every single aspect of our product should be monetized… Downloading is a cost, monetize it! Browsing libraries has eyeballs focused on it, advertise!
To these assholes it’s dumb not to do that.
Is it being a Stan to recognize all of the so called “competition” is dog shit? You want more competition? Provide better alternatives, there are VERY FEW corp’s with the pro customer attitude history that Valve has
But that’s the key word, isn’t it – “history”?
Valve hasn’t screwed us over yet, and that’s why I like them very much. Now. But neither did Google or Reddit, in the beginning. In fact, Reddit was a safe haven for people who left Digg after it became pay to win, and look at them now.
Not saying that I disagree, but it has basically always been written like that…
Yeah, but that’s not a reason that something is bad. As pointed out. Buying DRM free is the only possibility to really own the games you purchased.
Welcome to the modern world. Pretty much lines up with 99% of services people use daily.
I won’t ever move from steam to GoG, valve makes everything too convenient.
You can use them both of course. That’s what I do, and I usually just go with the one with the best price or best deal.
If it’s a game that I really need to be DRM free, then GoG is best.
There’s anothee way to keep having access to software no matter what companies do.
I have the generic steam crack well saved in my computer in case the decide to pull the plug.
How you do it?
Steam effectively makes buying games itself count as MTX. They’re making your Steam library no different from your MMO inventory.
That said, I’m addicted.
To be fair, if you would own it, they would have a very different legal framework to be working in. Would they be legally allowed to shut down their servers? Or would they have to run the company until bankruptcy, so maybe decades after steam stopped being profitable? Their product is a service based on. They want the service to be able to be ended. If you buy the games like you do on steam and you own them, can they end it?
It goes to great lengths to make it very clear that you don’t own anything. You aren’t buying anything, you have no essentially rights. You are simply paying for a license subscription to use software with various conditions. Valve is able to end your subscription with no refund if you break the agreement.
True, but:
but in recent years I’ve been getting games from gog
GOG shills always claim their platform is better because muh DRM-free games and actual ownership but GOG’s User Agreement states:
We give you and other GOG users the personal right (known legally as a ‘licence’) to use GOG services and to download, access and/or stream (depending on the content) and use GOG content. This licence is for your personal use. We can stop or suspend this licence in some situations, which are explained later on.
But once you have downloaded the installer you have the game drm free. Put it on a usb stick or whatever, your gog account doesn’t matter any more.
Yeah. That’s the difference. GOG can withdraw their services, but not the software that you’ve downloaded. Whereas Steam explicitly states that using the software may require their services (and it usually does).
It’s to keep people from doing stuff like requiring refunds or court cases for being banned, VAC or otherwise. To make some things not technically gambling, etc.
Valve is the paragon of gamers. They offer a great portal, free no bs family shares, pressure companies into sales on legacy software. Push VR from meme status (the oculus is even originally stolen valve tech look it up). Steam stream, steam controller, steam deck emulation of Nintendo switch, Jesus it’s endless.
And still there are people like you out here who have to lead with complaints about a bunch of text which everyone knows is exclusively for legal piss matches against companies and troublemakers.
I don’t know how you can be pleased by anything. Isn’t your life tiring living the life of a zealot? Or do you have just an unsatisfiable need to complain?
The company may be nice now and it’s okay to be happy with them, but that doesn’t mean you attack the personality of someone for pointing out factual information written in your beloved companies agreements.
I don’t know how you can be pleased by anything. Isn’t your life tiring living the life of a zealot? Or do you have just an unsatisfiable need to complain?
wtf man. Did someone shit in your breakfast cereal or something?
You’re the one getting mad at steam for things they could “maybe” do in the future. Stop incepting yourself with fantasy and then posting about it. “Hey guys you won’t BELIEVE what’s in this EULA” “Did you know TECHNICALLY valve could just do whatever they want?!?”
From your post history you’re older, you know EULAs are so ignored across the board that they’re there for entirely legal reasons. Oh yeah a company that has done all this good, (for you especially, without valve it’s safe to say there would be ZERO Linux gaming support like there is now.) But we better be ready for something that’s just completely antithetical to their history of actions because of some creative writing episode you’ve dreamed up. Corporations are bad capitalism is bad, open software and Linux gaming only please. No rights, no AAA just indie titles and slow burn, artistically crafted projects of love.
You’re like the vegans of computer science you’re insufferable.
Had a bad day?
Again, just because Valve hasn’t screwed us over yet is no excuse for assuming they never will.
People probably felt the same way Unity’s relatively fair licensing terms, or D&D’s license. They’ve rolled back now, but it’s common for companies to push this sort of thing, roll back, and then slowly introduce the same thing.
The point is not to avoid Steam, but to keep an eye out for scummy moves because no entity operating for profit is immune to temptation. Be ready to abandon ship should the time come or you’ll be the one left holding the bag.
NoOoOoO. You’re not allowed to bad mouth Steam here. Everything steam does is amazing. Steam is nothing like those filthy console companies. Steam good guys. Steam forever friend
Removed by mod
My bad. Forgot to add the /s
I hope he has some sort of contingency plan. Perhaps he can find a successor.
It involves golden tickets and the unsolved disappearances of a handful of children.
Brutal, I know, but it’s the only way.
I selfishly wish he had a son or daughter to carry on his legacy lol
More generations deserve to know how good Valve is.
Son/daughter would be like “ugh, this is lame, I want to play real-world games with peoples’ lives. …like, corporate wars, or screw-the-smallguy.”
Kids never handle the inheritance right, and passing on the experiences they need in order to do so is hard as fuck.
He has 2 kids lol. The eldest - Gray Newell, seems to be more into racing than game dev, though.
Yeah but whales are gonna get all the tickets. There’s no IRL Charlie luck magic.
Grandpa Joe’s probably a whale.
I need that comic where the girl is super frugal about everything except one particular thing.
Chat GPT predicts one of the kids will…
…get physically pulled into valves code? Not sure how that happens lol
🎵 One clicked on files they shouldn’t dare Now lost in code, they’ve disappeared in air Gaben warned, but they didn’t heed Now in the depths of Steam, they’ll forever plead
🎵 Oompa loompa doompety dah If you’re not careful, you’ll go too far Respect the rules when visiting Gaben’s lair Or vanish forever, lost in Valve’s software!
It really is.
If you’re reading this GabeN, make Valve a non-profit.
I hope that GabeO will be ready for release soon.
He’s on 4chan last I heard
He’s been on 4chan since before he started the company. Why do you think they got so popular so quick?
You know the Hedge Fund Fuckies are just fucking salivating at the thought of Valve being available to buy.
To implement NFT Microtransaction RNG lootboxes into their games while letting them rott?
Oh, not just their games
They’ll ruin it just like they ruin everything in pursuit of profit.
If a game is on GOG, I’d rather buy it there than on steam. Steam is great and they do a lot of great stuff, but you don’t own the game if you buy it through steam.
I do the same. Just because the platform is great does not mean it will be in the future.
I will cause a resonance cascade on Valve HQ if that ever happens.
That, sadly, is the future. Valve is one of those rare companies that put out something interesting then got out of the way so that others could put out their ideas. Steam and PAX are a fantastic way to enable the creativity of others. I will keep my fingers crossed that this all works out, but I am fully prepared to be sad between now and, say, 10 years in the future.
I buy my favorite games from GOG when they’re there so that I can keep the install files forever.
Maybe we’ll get lucky and Gaben will leave ownership of the company collectively to it’s employees.
That would be the best outcome, legal framework for the “flat” management structure, making it an employee owned company.
Valve becoming a coop is the only way I could envision them avoiding a worst case corporate scenario.
Honestly, why ruin something already raking in money hand over fist? Valve is profitable, sustainable, and all around well executed.
Messing with it would cut profits!
The same reason countless studios have destroyed successful IPs (like EA). Sure it’s profitable but it could be MORE profitable. Sales were up last year? Cool story, have sales improved over that this year though??
It’s not just shareholders, I mean that’s a huge part why public corporations endlessly seek growth. But, even private corporations are beholden to capitalism’s inherent growth imperative.
The only way to maintain solvency is to grow. Without growth you can’t save, and if you can’t save, you can’t accumulate investment capital. Which basically means your corporation is stuck in stagnation and is being eaten alive by interest rates.
Not true
It is to sustain an elite that takes the money in form of salary
Wtf are you babbling about? What salary man do you know that’s “elite”? They aren’t even petite bourgeoisie, they just think they are. The middle class is dead.
All CEO make their money from absurd salaries that they choose themselves
A CEO isn’t a salary man… A salary man is just a white collar worker who works for a salary, not hourly. Which is typically taken advantage of by having them work a tremendous amount of unpaid overtime.
Also, salaries are generally the least attractive part of being paid as a CEO. Taking the majority of your compensation as stock options allows you to avoid income tax.
Then why is their salary extremely insanely out of proportion in a destructive manner orders of magnitude over any sane number?
Why? Because the enshittification is based on short sighted greed over long sighted sustainable income.
This is what going public means. Now it is time to grind it to dust and snort it so the elite can have their fifth christmas bonus
Enshitification is the new word for capitalism?
The word for the unhinged new octaves of greed that comes from public companies these days as they discard customers for temporary personal gain
But if we add a subscription required to access already bought game we would surely make more money this quarter. Or how about charging for online play.
Greed and incompetence
In the end, the people who make these sorts of decisions will often bail out with their quarterly bonuses before the poo hits the fan. It’s everyone else who has to deal with the fallout.
Because enshitifying their service would earn them short term profits, which is the only thing corps/shareholders care about.
You clearly haven’t heard of private equity
If you’ve read/watched ready player one, that’s what likely to happen if the sixers won.
GabeN is the Ruth Bader Ginnsberg of gaming. Please sir, take care of yourself, for all of us.
“Please sir, step down while there’s still a chance to replace you with someone reasonable”?
So he’s going to stay in his position way past when he reasonably should because of pride and not take advice from his friends and family to step down so he could transfer power to a worthy successor?
Let’s not place all the blame on her Republicans were going to let Obama place anyone on the supreme Court. They rejected all his nominations. It was wait for Democrats to have full control or hang on cause Republicans wouldn’t let anyone but a Republican get nominated.
She was damned if she did damned if she didn’t. But cause see hanged on we all blamed her instead of rightful raging at McConnell
Republicans seem to throw their weight around all the time and never need this excuse. Dems have no teeth, they never have. They had 2 years of full control during Obama’s first term and couldn’t get anything done and let the GOP carve up Affordable Care just so they could take pretend it was bipartisan. The excuses just get old, I’ve been hearing them since they let bush steal the election
It needs some legally bulletproof foundation structure to own the company and continue with his values. Not easy but possible.
Steve Jobs managed to do this picking Tim Cooke. Hopefully will be the same for valve
Hey now. A divorce could also sink things. He doesn’t have to die for things to go to shit.
(I know nothing of his personal life.)
Well his name didn’t show up in Epstein’s public records (unlike a certain CEO from a company Microsoft bought/CEO that founded/ran Microsoft) so we’re fine there.
And I did look. Extensively.
It’s a good sign because 1) He’s smart enough to not have a paper trail and/or 2) His hobbies are innocuous, like, I think he really only cares about submersibles and knives and he wasn’t stabbing people on some carbon fiber tube near the titanic so he’s not a dumbass either.
You know, I am glad you thought to check.
🏴☠️
Not sure why this would happen when Valve doesn’t need any extra money from the markets, and is privately owned. Gabe owns >50%, rest is apparently Valve’s employees and execs. Gabe is divorced, has two sons, so I suppose that 50% goes to those guys. So I guess it depends how much the brothers think they need cash.
Do you know what the word shill means?
Baby, it means whatever you want it to mean.
