There A lot of reactions to the OKC Thunder loss, suggesting lineup changes, bringing in more shooters, banishing Killian, playing Ivey or Burks as a starter. There may be merit in these suggestions, but these do not really address the primary reason why we lost to the Thunder last game.
Let’s look at the offense. In the OKC game, we made ten more assists than the Thunder (31 vs 21). We also shot better from three not just in percentages but in actual makes (15/28 vs 13/29). And despite so many turnovers from Cade, we matched the Thunder in points off turnovers. Our main problem offensively is 2P%, but that’s not really the biggest issue as the total points we scored is only second to the points we scored in the home opener.
The problem was on the defensive side of the ball. This game is the first time this season that a team scored more than 105 pts on us (103, 99, 102 vs this game’s 124 by OKC). This is the first game this season that we let a team score more than 30 in a quarter for three quarters after we only allowed that in one quarter for the last three games. We were beat in defensive rebounds by ten (28 vs 38). We gave up six more fouls, resulting to four more FTAs. And this is the first time this season that an opponent shot above 50% from the 2P area against us (41.43%, 43%, 43.07% vs 57.4% by OKC!).
Sure, let us change Killian from the starting lineup as he is shooting poorly and Cade could be better served playing with shooters. But is that addressing the primary issues that arose from the game? Let us not be oblivious to what the data is telling us, which is that we lost the Thunder game because for the first time this season, we did not play good defense. For me, what should be addressed by the coaching staff is our defensive schemes when the opponent has stretch bigs like Chet and Jalen Williams which took away Duren and Stew’s defensive impact. They missed their rotations, especially Duren who is used to rim protecting, which led to four very open threes by Chet. Incidentally, the winning margin is 12 points.
Relax. We actually only lost in the first quarter. The Pistons matched the Thunder the rest of the way. We just need to adjust better defensively.
This is an offensive league. Especially when it comes to playoff games. The last “defense first team” I can think of was the 2020(2019?) knicks and they got crushed in the play offs.
The starting five for the nuggets (last year) all shot at or above 39%. The top 5 teams in each conference last year, all had 3+ 38% 3pt shooters in the starting 5.
Modern NBA is all about spacing, and scoring, the bad boy days are long gone. I’m guessing one of monte or bogey will start when healthy, but I guarantee you we would struggle to win games with this line up long term, teams will simply double team Cade and clog the paint.
Great point. I mean, why use facts and logic when toxic fans can simply scapegoat our point guard?
Duren leaves Chet open for three several times
Fans: We need more spacing! Replace Killian Hayes from the starting lineup!
It’s all relative though. If theres no spacing and the offense isn’t good the opposing team is getting pts off turnovers and long rebounds from our bad shooters where the defense can’t get set. IMO an on ball guard defender doesn’t impact the defense in a magnitude that some fans think.
Yes, but a guard who always gets blown by is the one that impacts the defense much more.
Good post. Leaving Chet wide open for three threes in the first quarter was egregious and we made numerous other defensive lapses throughout the game. We played like our age and experience against a better team than us.
I also agree that Cade needs at least one more floor spacer (Burks) in the starting lineup as those quadruple teams are too much for him to handle particularly when he had Dort draped all over him. It can’t be Ivey due to his D and because we really do need an experienced vet with all the youth.
Cades TOs are partially a product of the lack of respect teams have for the other starters offensively. Bogey and Morris can’t get back soon enough. If they are healthy it solves a lot of our current issues.
60% of his turnovers last game were just sloppy. Turnovers has always been an issue for him
The starting lineup we’ve been playing pretty much needs to be a top ten defensive lineup every night to make up for the lack of spacing. Can they do that? Maybe, but I wouldn’t bet it, it’s hard for such a young team to play consistent defense. Also, our first 3 games were against 3 of the worst regular season offenses last year. The Thunder were the first “real test” and they failed.
Playing Killian + Ausar as our 2/3 just drastically shrinks the margin for error for our offense. I love how hard the starting lineup has been trying on defense and the tenacity they play with, but, the truth is when we play a team of the Thunder’s quality, there’s going to be more games like Monday night, where a good team is creating problems for the defense, and the offense lacks the spacing/firepower to keep up.
If Monty is okay with that, and believes that this is the best way to instill a defense intensity into our young guys, fine with me. Didn’t expect a ton of wins this season anyway. But the lack of spacing is negatively affecting Cade, and I worry it may slightly hinder his development
I think Monty once said that what they want to avoid is Cade taking on more defensive load since he is already leading the offense. If he is partnered with a defensive liability, then he would be spending more effort on defense, which can also hinder his development.
You realize this also precludes Bojan.
These narratives are all spun around one thing: justifying why Ivey isn’t starting. Somehow, in the span of three weeks, Ivey not starting has become an article of faith among some. It must be explained and defended at all costs.
But the same rationale precludes starting Bojan - more so, I’d argue. He’s every bit as weak a defender and probably even weaker, and he’s not a threat to create for anyone else.
First, Ivey actually has a worse DBPM than Bojan last season. If defensive metrics is not your thing, then we can say that Bojan’s offensive prowess for now is greater than Ivey, so you could hope that his offense could mitigate his defensive shortcomings more than Ivey can for now. Third, he at keast has more size than Ivey, so he can be moved to the three while Ausar can move to the 2.
People are underestimating how much the starting lineup has struggled on offense. The starting lineup has been so egregiously bad on offense so far that it would have genuinely needed to be the best defense of the post-handchecking era in order to break even. We’re talking the sort of defense that isn’t even legal anymore.
This is not an exaggeration. The offense has been more than 15 points per 100 possessions worse than last season’s best defense, and its own defense is no better than league average. And given how fundamentally broken it is as an offensive lineup, its scoring is very unlikely to substantively improve.
The starting line up came into the game with a -10 point differential. We’ve been saved by our bench unit (Burks and Ivey) in our two wins so far. The OKC game was what happens when you really think Killian and Ausar can occupy two spots in the starting lineup.
Or maybe the defensive starting lineup kept us within striking distance going toe to toe against a starting lineup with three previous All-Stars, then Burks and company can then overwhelm the other team’s bench.
Did you look at any of the data before making this post?
What you’re claiming simply isn’t true. The starting lineup has been an absolute disaster so far, and it has been so comically bad on offense that it would need to be the best defense in the entire post-handchecking era in order to break even.
And it hasn’t even been a good defensive lineup in the first place. Statistically speaking, it’s been no better than league average.
Wide open Chet 3s and easy 4th quarter Giddey layups are what killed this game
Fatigue was a part of our defensive collapse. OKC was on a 2nd game in a back to back yes but both games were right at home. Those guys would’ve been tired but not having to travel would help. We’ve played 4 games ourselves but 3 of them have been away games including part of our own back to back.
OKC having better depth in their roster, being a better team seeing as they were in the play in last season without even having Chet, and getting to do their back to back all at home… it’s not too surprising the defensive lapses or the TOs on our team from sloppy play. Cade had as many TOs as Killian did assist largely because I think the guy was just tired and he doesn’t have world breaking conditioning quite yet.
The fact we weren’t beaten worse and were sitting at a .500 record says to me were doing alright so far. Good post
I love the defense, but this is an offensive league. Almost every player OKC rolled out there can shoot from distance. Pistons are still lacking in that area big time. Monte and Bogey should help quite a bit though. Hopefully, they can ride the storm until they can play.
The bad offense resulted in bad defense (losing 3 pt shooters in transition)
I’d be interested in seeing our defensive numbers after a made field goal vs a miss.
OKC outscored the Pistons because the starting lineup is an unambiguous, irredeemable catastrophe on offense. It has no hope of keeping up with a respectable opponent, and it was terrible even through the first three games. It was just worse against an OKC defense that is fully capable of exploiting what’s a massively exploitable lineup.
As I’ve said elsewhere, this lineup would have needed to be enormously better than last season’s best defense in order to even come close to breaking even. In the event, it’s been about league average so far.
To put things into perspective, the last two teams who were as good on defense as this lineup has been bad on offense were the 2003-2004 Pistons and Spurs – two all-time-great defensive rosters who played at the absolute peak of the defensive era, immediately before the outlawing of handchecking.
And given how fundamentally broken this lineup is on offense, that scoring is very unlikely to substantively improve.
Also, and this is important, they are the better overall team currently