Great advice! That’s why I will also install Fedora Silverblue or VanillaOS on my mums’ laptop in the future. Currently, I put Mint on hers, because she is older and I thought she might prefer having something that reminds her of “the good ol’ days”. But I find myself needing to google stuff she could have searched for herself, because I also don’t know how to fix it.

Sure, I could resort to the terminal, but I want her to see how I do things to let her fix them herself in the future if the need arises.

So nixos or gentoo then.

Good advice!
I personally think tho, that Debian isn’t the best beginner distro.
Not, because it’s not user friendly or something, but more because of the complicated and unintuitive installer.

Take Mint or Zorin for example, where you basically only need to click “next next” and it’s installed, and after that, you get a wonderful first start wizard where everything gets explained (how to download new apps, get updates, etc.).

I had a lot of issues when installing Debian after some days, because of a non-optimal suggested partitioning layout, misconfigured mirror-server list or network for example.
But once it’s running, it’s very solid!

As I mentioned in the post, Debian (+ Flatpaks) is a great choice, but I’d recommend something else as a base tbh.

My personal choice is Fedora Atomic, because of the reliability of the host system and the good balance between stability and moderness. Debian is a bit too stable (too old/ stale) for my own taste, but I respect everyone who likes that.

I’m a Gnome fanboy personally too, but not everyone likes it.
I’ve heard very often from other users, that they always thought Gnome is the Linux DE and didn’t get warm with Linux in general because of that.
And when they discovered KDE/ another DE, they instantly fell in love and never looked back.

In my opinion, GTK apps look way better on KDE than Qt apps do on Gnome. On KDE, they integrate a bit better due to theming, but look slightly off.
Qt on Gnome on the other hand is almost unusable.
But both improved.

Still, thank you for your addition!

Been using xfce for over 10 years and never had gtk/libadwaita issues.

Why is Debian “for grandpa’s” now?

You misunderstood that point. It’s not that Debian is for grandpas, it’s that Debian is the cool grandpa! ;)
It’s one of the oldest distros available out there (in terms of how long it has already existed), and everybody likes it. Just read my post, and you’ll notice that I’ve never spoken badly about it.

Do you not know that you can install KDE and other DEs on Pop (and most other distros)?

I do, but the DE is one of the main selling points of a lot of distros. For example, in what main aspect would you say TuxedoOS differs from Mint? Right, in terms of the DE.
Of course you can change it, but when you do that for example in Mint, you loose most of the great things that distro does. It also feels “dirty”. You can do that, sure, but if there are a dozen “different” distros, that only differ mainly from their DE-optimization, then choose it based on that. Nothing wrong with that.
If you already decided for a distro (e.g. Fedora) and want to change the DE further down the road, you can do that, but it might be messy.

Why is the terminal treated like some dark and arcane device only to be used by “the old ones”?

Because it appears frightening and “hacky” for new users. Using the terminal from time to time to change very deep settings under the hood is fine for most people, but if you need to open the terminal for any trivial task it ruins the user experience.

Ubuntu left off just because you don’t like snaps regardless of the fact that it has a huge user base and tons of documentation and user support forums?

Yes. While Snaps became better in the last years, they still bring a lot of trouble. Just, for example, think of Valve when they officially recommended everyone to not use the fricking Snap package because it’s broken all the time? Good luck doing that with Ubuntu, when they shove Snaps down everyones’ throat, without even notifying the user.
While we more experienced users just change the package format, newcomers aren’t aware of that and blame a malfunctioning app to Linux, not the Snap.

I just don’t see any reasons to recommend Ubuntu over something like Mint or even Debian. Both are pretty much the same (same command compatibility with apt, documentation also applies to them, etc.), but just better in any aspect.

Leave out the immutables, rolling distros like Arch and other small community distros

Immutables have their place, especially VanillaOS. They maintain themselfes automatically, make the system way less complicated (because you never come into touch with anything outside of /var/ anyway) and are perfectly fine for most people by just installing Flatpaks.

Arch is only there because people wanted it to be in my previous post where I asked, and they argued that not everyone wants a easy “Windows-replacement and just works”-experience. Some are here because they want to learn and tinker. And for that, NixOS and Arch are ideal, with the big disclaimer.

I would explain desktop environments separately - they are typically the most confusing thing to Linux newbies. e.g. that you can often choose between them on the same distro. And that they can even be installed at the same time and chosen on login so people can experiment. A true “newb” will often not even recognize that the DE isn’t the os itself.

I did briefly, but that would be too confusing. I don’t recommend installing many DEs side by side, as this will cause many problems and inconsistencies.

I would avoid the phrase “beginner friendly” as 1) it makes it seem like it may be limited compared to others and 2) is too vague. “Easy to install and use” and “have a good community for support” are better metrics to judge by and are what beginners want.

That’s what I did in the beginning?

Every distro of the following recommended ones meets all of these criteria:

• Easy to understand and intuitive to use
• You don’t have to use the command line
• Works reliable
• Supports Nvidia-GPUs

I still thank you for your critique and upvoted it because it might add value to this discussion :)

I would explain desktop environments separately

As someone that is a total newbie, I would definitely appreciate this. It’s the first option to select lol

Agreed. “Use debian, unless you know better”.

Done.

Ubuntu has become very controversial.

It used to be good and paved the way of today’s Linux desktop world, but nowadays, the Corporation behind it, Canonical, decided to shit on its user base.

• Once, they decided to make advertisements for Amazon a few years ago, which they’ve reverted
• They now make ads in the terminal for “Ubuntu Pro”
• And, mostly, they force their own and highly controversial package format (Snaps) onto users. You almost can’t get around them, even if you actively decide for it.

If you want something non-BS, use Mint or Fedora.

Nothing.

It’s perfectly fine for the class of Linux user that only has a slight-to-none Vitamin D deficiency.

Laughing in Linux From Scratch.

Gentoo isn’t so much painful but it takes a bloody long time. If anything, some of the packages are really painful. Qtwebengine is one such example.

gentoo takes a long time. but currently they started shipping out binaries – and with a more recent architecture too (x86-64-p2 or - p4) which helps a lot as compared to building your own Libre office.

they got good guides as well. I got to use one for troubleshooting even if I use a diff distro.

Installing Gentoo requires you to 1. follow a long list of instructions (correctly, in order, without skipping) and 2. be willing to make some decisions about your system setup. I don’t consider that painful, but some people apparently do. It’s also useful to bring a book or some other secondary form of entertainment to occupy yourself with during the non-interactive parts of the install process. Once the initial install is done, you can minimize wasted time by starting updates right before leaving the computer, or just configure it to always leave one core free for your interactive needs.

Gentoo has never been an appropriate distribution for new Linux users with no technical background, or people who want their system to “just work” without caring about how. It’s always been about choice, and its flexibility is both a strength and a weakness. Regardless, the OP did the correct thing by not including it in their guide.

Isn’t that what you want?

As explained in another comment somewhere else here, Ubuntu is highly controversial, especially due to Snaps. I will paste my reasons here when I found them.

I wanted to have a Debian-based distro here too, and TuxedoOS removes all the Ubuntu-shit and replaces it with some great OOTB additions (e.g. a good welcome wizard).

Edit: Found it

Yes. While Snaps became better in the last years, they still bring a lot of trouble. Just, for example, think of Valve when they officially recommended everyone to not use the fricking Snap package because it’s broken all the time? Good luck doing that with Ubuntu, when they shove Snaps down everyones’ throat, without even notifying the user. While we more experienced users just change the package format, newcomers aren’t aware of that and blame a malfunctioning app to Linux, not the Snap.

I just don’t see any reasons to recommend Ubuntu over something like Mint or even Debian. Both are pretty much the same (same command compatibility with apt, documentation also applies to them, etc.), but just better in any aspect.

Each to their own :)
I’ve also read other comments telling me to drop KDE and Mint because Gnome is the “standard” DE for Linux, and that nobody else should use something different.

This is why I included other DEs.
While I personally love Gnome more than anything else and find myself working extremely efficient with it, others despite it and prefer other things like Plasma.

Giving them a choice between 2 (3) great options felt right for me.

Sure, under two conditions.

1. You say that you didn’t create the content yourself, and only provided the translation.
2. You provide the link to the original post very visibly, preferably in a small statement in the beginning.

Otherwise, here’s the raw file (Draw.io, FOSS, also available as Flatpak) and the Markdown text for you to paste. Link: https://notebin.de/?bacad84b46e92d92#3ZzsNgjBMCxudUGrJ6TV9hZTh5hFt1ctiAYgbuUNcjf2

Yeah a lot of this chart just doesn’t make sense to me. You trolling op?

That’s rude, man. If you don’t like it, do it better. I’ve spent half my weekend for it, and gave my best. I wouldn’t invest so much time if my sole purpose is only trolling.

But, that’s what the comment section is for - if others think the same way as you do, yours will be one of the top comments.
I made a post a few days before, where I collected some opinions and double checked if I’m wrong.
If others think differently about certain points, feel free to correct me or add information.

For example, pop os uses a very opinionated version of gnome? Since when? Seems barely modified to my eye.

Yes, it is highly modified compared to the vanilla Gnome, for example, in following ways:

• Pop shell tiling
• Minimize button
• A dock
• Different workspaces
• Extensions
• Different themes/ look
• and more.

It looks and feels completely different. Not worse, just different. I don’t say it’s a bad modification, it feels coherent and adds value for many people.

Also you recommend kde plasma to Mac users? Gnome seems WAY closer to me.

Gnome looks only similar to MacOS on the surface, but, philosophy and usage wise, it behaves completely different.
It’s completely unique in its own way, you can’t compare it to anything else, except you want it to be that by using extensions.

KDE on the other hand is often compared to Windows, only because of the out-of-the-box look with the task bar on the bottom.
But, if you modify it for less than 5 minutes, it looks and behaves almost like MacOS does, e.g. ALT + space opening up KRunner (Spotlight).

I don’t get why you’d spend so much time if your info is all just going to be a little bit wrong

Tell me exactly what is wrong, and I’ll correct it if the need arises.

Of course, you’re right. I know I made some blanket statements, but I found it necessary to simplify everything a bit.

I personally have the feeling you contradict yourself tho. You basically say “Arch is super easy”, but then list 100 reasons why it isn’t.

As I said in the post, Arch is a fantastic distro, but nothing I would recommend for anyone.
Most people don’t use their OS as a nerd hobby (sorry!), but as a means to get their software they need (browser, office, games, etc.) running.

They just want something that works reliably and doesn’t get in their way.
They don’t care if they use zfs or btrfs as filesystem or run the newest KDE framework.

Needing to check the news page on daily basis, or risking to brick their system otherwise, is a big no-go for most.

Of course, installing it isn’t the hardest part.

But maintaining it reasonably is also important, which happens mostly passively on other systems. Turning on the PC and getting greeted by GRUB emergency mode is the worst case for anyone, and would result in installing Windows again for most.

Also, it’s very minimalist. For users who already know what they need, that’s good.
I don’t know if you know the greentext-meme with the Arch-guy who had to share his screen, but couldn’t because of his missing component, and then got laughed at and overshadowed by the girl with her Windows laptop.

This “bloat” is what makes a comfortable computing experience for most other people, and needing to google “Arch no sound” and fixing something for two hours is just something not everyone is comfortable and willing with.

That’s why I’ve made the big disclaimer and said it should only be chosen if you’re ready for a big learning experience and have the patience for that.

Thank you very much! ❤️ Depending on what games you have in your mind, you might not even need Windows anymore for that, thanks to Steam/ Lutris and Proton. Have you checked protondb.com?