Hey folks. I’ve had an on-again, off-again relationship with Linux for over 20 years. Usually, my attempts to use it are either thwarted by issues installing, issues booting, or general problems while using it… leading to “catastrophic failure” that I can’t fix without digging into hours of research and terminal commands.
Windows 11 (even 10) are rock solid for me, even as a very heavy multitasker. No crashes. No needing to reboot, unless I’m forced to with an update, and really no issues with any hardware or software I was running.
But with Linux, I just can’t believe how unstable it is, even when I do the absolute basic things.
I’m trying to learn why this is, and how I can prevent these issues from coming up. As I said, I’m committed to using Linux now (I’m done with American software), so I’m open to suggestions.
For context, I’m using a Framework laptop, which is fully (and officially) supports Fedora and Ubuntu. Since Fedora has American ties, I’ve settled with Ubuntu.
All things work as they should: fingerprint scanner, wifi, bluetooth, screen dimming, wake up from suspend, external drives, NAS shared folders, etc. I’ve even got VirtualBox running Windows 11 for the few paid software that I need to load up from time to time.
But I’m noticing issues that seemingly pop out of nowhere on the software/os end of things.
For example, after having no issues updating software, I get this an error: “something went wrong, but we’re not sure what it is.”
Then sometimes I’ll be using Firefox, I’ll open a new tab to type in a search term or URL, and the typing will “lag”, then the address bar will flicker like it’s reloading, and it doesn’t respond well to my mouse clicks. I have to close it out, then start over for it to resolve.
Then I’ll open a different app, sometimes it might open, sometimes it won’t.
Or an app will freeze for no obvious reason, and I’ll get a popup asking to wait or quit.
Another time I left my computer while I went out for a walk, came back, and it was like I just rebooted… all my work was gone, and it was starting fresh from the login screen.
I’m trying not to overload things, and I’m doing maybe 1/5th of what I’d normally be doing when running windows. But I don’t understand why it’s so unstable.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
FWIW, I’m not keen to switch away from Ubuntu, because I do still want official support if there’s ever a problem with getting hardware to work.
UPDATE: Wow, I did not expect to get so many responses! Amazing!
Per suggestions, I ran a memtest86 for over 3 hours and it was clean.
I installed Fedora 41 and am now setting it up. Seems good so far, and elevated permissions can be authorized with biometrics! This was not something I had to. Ubuntu, so awesome there!
Any specific tips for Fedora that I should know? Obviously, no more Snap packages now! 😂
UPDATE 2: Ok, Fedora seems waaaay more stable than Ubuntu (and Mint). No strangeness like before… but not everything works as easily. For example, getting a bridged network adapter to work in virtualbox was one-click easy on Ubuntu… not so much on Fedora (still trying to get it working). And Virtualbox didn’t even run my VM without more terminal hackery.
But the OS seems usable, and I’m still setting things up.
One thing I have noticed, however. When I search for how to fix or do something, nearly all websites and forums reference Debian/Ubuntu commands, so the fragmentation there is a little annoying
Using only non american oss is literally impossible.
Choosing Ubuntu over Fedora because of American ties is rich
Can you explain? I mean, anything is better than a Microsoft OS, tbh.
But I’d rather avoid American-based distros if I can.
I’d say Fedora is one of the best distros even the founder of Linux uses it. It’s FOSS like all of Linux, people can see if there’s an issue. Ubuntu has made a lot of decisions recently such as pushing snaps that people dislike. Most big name distros are connected to corporate funding, that’s how they continue to be maintained. Finally, Canonical being British owned certainly doesn’t make it better, possibly worse privacy wise.
Edit: conflating big American tech firms that steal your data with big America tech firms that make FOSS is just silly.
recently
Unity and Mir would like a word
I say still use fedora; just don’t pay for it! \s
conflating big American tech firms that steal your data with big America tech firms that make FOSS is just silly.
For sure. But also seeing Americans as friends and allies… and now we (Canada and the rest of the world, but not Russia) are being attacked with threats on our sovereignty, just doesn’t seem normal anymore.
Nothing that used to be logical can be taken as such now. An American tech that makes FOSS is still an American tech. And I hate even having to say that, because I would have gladly supported American FOSS just a few months ago.
I think you’ll find nearly every significant FOSS project will have American contributors software in its development. Typically, anyone who can code and wants to contribute can do so.
I guess the point is more about the leadership, who has the control, who are the majority, and not purism
Well you’ll hate to hear who contributes most to the linux kernel in that case…
we get it - you posture
there isn’t really any good reason to do what you are doing other than virtue signaling, but go off everyone is going to love you for it
Bro. Framework is an American laptop.
I bought it before the coup and threats to my country! 😂
Well I assure you Fedora is on the leftist side 😂
because FOSS has no country lines, and fedora is a bit better nowadays.
Something is awfully weird here, because Linux literally runs the worlds infrastructure for the internet. It is not unstable by any stretch of the imagination. Something you’re doing between all distros has got to be the culprit - something you do differently than other people.
I installed Arch on my daily driver because I wanted a challenge.
It’s too dependable, even when updating every other day and installing a bunch of nonsense from the AUR. Where’s my challenge?OP is a newbie and is externalizing his lack of knowledge.
A 747 would seem like a death trap if a toddler were given control but there, as here, it isn’t the plane that’s the problem.
Coming from Windows, Linux (especially when only talking about GUI environments) seems to not tell you anything about your problems. Eventually you learn how to find the relevant logs and the problems seem less arbitrary.
Or hardware issues (i still have night sweats over wifi on laptops even though that has been better for decades now).
Server infrastructure does not run X Servers / GUI
Yeah, Linux never had any issues with graphics …
Framework fully supports Ubuntu and has full guides on them. If you have issues, I’d suggest posting on the Framework message boards, they’re very responsive.
Yes, I think I might need to, especially if advanced troubleshooting is needed.
I was hoping perhaps that it’s something I’m doing wrong. Clearly, this isn’t how it should be, but I’ll keep trying to get this working!
I think they have a live usb that you can boot into to see if the issues are still occurring there to try and rule out hardware. Would probably be my first go-to. If that works well, probably backup, wipe, follow the framework guide for your OS, and hopefully that does it. :)
I don’t know the support model for Framework but they should really be able to work through these issues for such a common distro. With the various things you mentioned it doesn’t sound like bad configuration, it sounds like a hardware issue. Given that Windows is so different from Linux it may be the case that Win11 does a better job masking the issues.
I see your edits and I had the same experience with Ubuntu. For whatever reason on my ThinkPad I had bugs and just weird issues that no one else would run into every single time. And I would try Ubuntu after every major update and it would still be some weird bugs never the same ones.
I’ve now been using Fedora for almost 4 years it’s solid. I always recommend enabling RPM fusion to get those proprietary codecs and I like to change my zram config to what is recommended on the arch wiki.
I’ve been running Linux for 20+ years as well (on-amd-off for most of that, but mostly on). Stability has almost never been an issue, only when I was fucking around and finding out lol. My biggest problem in recent years was Ubuntu never having what I wanted, and Arch always having what I needed… So I just moved to Arch and things have never been better.
This. If you’re going to fuck around with your root, be prepared to find out. Most other problems is a quick search, “oh I don’t have x dependency”, and done.
Nowadays you just need to learn how to use Timeshift and make a save point before messing with stuff. System unstable after tinkering? Time to roll back. Linux is easier and more stable than ever before.
Just stay home, literally in your system, and you’ll be fine 99% of the time.
But with Linux, I just can’t believe how unstable it is, even when I do the absolute basic things.
That doesn’t sound right.
Start with Linux Mint. I’ve helped Boomers use it. My dad has been using it as his daily driver for almost 5 years and he doesn’t know the difference between an OS and a Word Processor (he keeps calling LibreOffice “Linux”).
Start with Linux Mint.
On this laptop, Mint was even worse, unfortunately!
I do have it running on a miniPC hooked up to my TV, though. Very basic stuff like video streaming. :(
It runs my TV too, which is a 7-year-old Dell All-in-One touch screen that works great.
Interesting, I’ve had terrible experience trying to get a stylus-supporting touchscreen to work on Mint.
Works perfectly on my Asus Zenbook.
I don’t use it much, but it works.
I honestly think mint is an outdated suggestion for beginners, I think immutability is extremely important for someone who is just starting out, as well as starting on KDE since it’s by far the most developed DE that isn’t gnome and their… design decisions are unfortunate for people coming from windows.
I don’t think we should be recommending mint to beginners anymore, if mint makes an immutable, up to date KDE distro, that’ll change, but until then, I think bazzite is objectively a better starting place for beginners.
The mere fact that it generates a new system for you on update and lets you switch between and rollback automatically is enough for me to say it’s better, but it also has more up to date software, and tons of guides (fedora is one of the most popular distros, and bazzite is essentially identical except with some QoL upgrades).
How common is the story of “I was new to linux and completely broke it”? that’s not a good user experience for someone who’s just starting, it’s intimidating, scary, and I just don’t think it’s the best in the modern era. There’s something to be said about learning from these mistakes, but bazzite essentially makes these mistakes impossible.
Furthermore because of the way bazzite works, package management is completely graphical and requires essentially no intervention on the users part, flathub and immutability pair excellently for this reason.
Cinnamon (the default mint environment) doesn’t and won’t support HDR, the security/performance improvements from wayland, mixed refresh rate displays, mixed DPI displays, fractional scaling, and many other things for a very very long time if at all. I don’t understand the usecase for cinnamon tbh, xfce is great if you need performance but don’t want to make major sacrifices, lmde is great if you need A LOT of performance, cinnamon isn’t particularly performant and just a strictly worse version of kde in my eyes from the perspective of a beginner, anyway.
I have 15 years of linux experience and am willing to infinitely troubleshoot if you add me on matrix.
If you’re using Ubuntu make sure you’re using the most recent LTS release instead of the latest one. Stability issues shouldn’t be a problem on those.
I was told Ubuntu was a good beginner distro and used it for like a year and then towards the end of that year things got weird. So since then I’ve moved to arch, because it rolls so much and I don’t keep up, it’s even more unstable. I got some other laptops running bazzite (fedora based) and they seem ok.
So yeah, like your edited comment, I would recommend fedora or even vanilla Debian.
Where did you get this laptop from? Did you buy it new or used?
The reason why I ask is because it sounds like you have hardware issues.
Yep, the Firefox thing is weird. I’d run a memory test . Does this laptop do the same thing with Windows?
Also op mentions 20 years, were your other experiences like this?
You need to stop worrying about “official support.” You aren’t a business so it doesn’t matter for you. There is more support out there online for free than you realize. There’s nothing magical framework does for you that doesn’t get ported out everywhere else eventually anyway. Stop limiting yourself like that.
That being said, Ubuntu is built in Debian. Debian is an incredibly solid and stable distro. Ubuntu does do a few questionable things with it but it’s still very reliable. If you have problems with stability, it’s very unlikely Ubuntu is the problem unless you did something so incredibly stupid to it support wouldn’t help you anyway.
I have a theory. Windows can dance around memory corruption issues in ways Linux just refuses to do. Windows will misbehave in strange ways trying to make things work until it just can’t anymore. Linux is more of a binary thing. It works or it doesn’t. It’s not going to play pretend for you. It refuses. Linus has an obscene hand gesture for your hardware.
I want you to get a copy of memtest86+ and boot it off a flash drive. Then just let it beat the shit out of your CPU and ram for a couple hours.
Framework laptops are generally Intel. Intel hasn’t been making the best stuff over the past few years. It’s possible your cpu might be affected by a flaw Intel tried to cover up for a while. If it has it, nothing in earth will ever make that chip reliable. It’s not fixable. It will only get worse with time no matter what OS you use.
Yeah, this was my first thought: test your hardware.
Frameworks have all AMD options too, just a heads up. I have one and it runs great!
They do indeed! And if I had a framework that’s exactly what I would buy unless they had an ARM offering.
Somewhat obvious tips to get a more stable experience:
- Use a distribution that favour stability over being on the bleeding edge. Like Debian stable, or another distribution that maintain LTS releases,
- Install software from the distribution’s main package repository. Avoid third party packages and repos as much as possible. If you really need a third party repo, verify it’s compatible with your specific distro and has reputation for being well maintained,
- When you do see a problem, take time to troubleshoot and if necessary make a bug report with necessary information for developers to identify the problem, so there’s a better chance to see it fixed.
- If you use Linux in a professional settings, there is paid support available out there, in some cases this get you priority for bug fixes.
Good advice, also Fedora’s “atomic” distros are both bleeding edge and extremely stable!
Atomic distro sounds like an interesting way to avoid breakage due to admin/user mistakes, so it’s a good suggestion. But it doesn’t help much with bugs in new software releases.
So the best choice depends on what exactly caused instability in OP’s case.
Surprised to hear stability questioned. We have RHEL systems at work that have been running 24/7 for over a year.
From the look of it, I may just have really bad luck with Ubuntu and related distros.
I’ve been on Fedora for the last 24h, and it’s been incredibly stable. Even heavy multitasking with Boxes running two VMs in the background! haha
I’ll likely be downvoted for this, but if you’re committed to Linux, you might want to reconsider using Ubuntu (or Fedora for that matter). Ubuntu has a well-earned reputation for trying to make things “easy” by obfuscating what it’s doing from the user (hence that useless error message). They’re also a corporate distro, so their motivations are for their profit rather than your needs (wait 'til you had about Snap).
A good starting distro is Debian (known for stable, albeit older) software. It’s a community Free software project and the 2nd-oldest Linux distro that’s still running as well as the basis for a massive number of other distros (including Ubuntu). The installer is straightforward and easy too.
Or if you’re feeling ambitious, I’d recommend Arch or Gentoo. These distros walk you through the install from a very “bare metal” perspective with excellent documentation. Your first install is a slog, but you learn a great deal about the OS in the process, ensuring that you have more intimate knowledge when something goes wrong.
What are you talking about being downvoted for that. Ubuntu is not well-liked and switching it out is a common suggestion.
I don’t know what to tell you. I’ve been shouted down more than a few times for suggesting that Ubuntu is a bad gateway distro.
ironically, I think whining about anticipated downvotes for expressing the most mainstream sentiment is worthy of downvotes
Well, they’re also taking swings at Fedora which isn’t usually as maligned. Besides that, there’s a lot in their comment that people could have strong opinions about beside “Ubuntu bad”.
Yeah, Ubuntu is really corpo these days, tons of bloat too. I avoid it like the plague.
I do appreciate the reply. I’ll check with Framework to see how well Debian is supported. I might just go that route. I don’t need anything fancy or cutting edge, but I do need stability.
There’s a saying: “Don’t break Debian.” It’s considered among the most stable options, and that’s in part because of its extremely long test cycles (which can come with its own set of problems, on occasion).
I do find it curious that you’ve chosen to divest from even American FOSS projects. Like, Microsoft makes sense; they have no qualms about doing whatever they want with user data for profit, which inevitably goes towards billionaire machinations. But why draw that same line with FOSS?
Honestly, not knowing enough about how linux distros are funded is part of it.
And the second part is more “If I’m going to commit, I might as well start off with something I can live with through whatever geopolitical wars we have to endure.” My preference is to remove as much American influence from my life as possible, including the OS and software I use.
This is the only reason why I’m moving away from Windows, because it’s served me well.
First of all, I’m not trying to tell you how you should live your life. My following commentary is well-intended and in the spirit of making informed decisions, of which I believe everyone has a fundamental right. At the end of the day, follow your conscience. It’s your life to live.
Spoiler, because I'm long-winded
Honestly, not knowing enough about how linux distros are funded is part of it.
Every distro is different. Some have zero financial investment and only volunteer labor. Some have community donations only. Some have funds from non-profit foundations or trusts with specific philanthropic qualifications. Some have corporate sponsors. Some have a mixture. Since you’ve narrowed things down to Ubuntu and Fedora, I recommend exploring where their money each comes from, how they use that money, what kind of governing bodies they have, etc. Though Canonical is based in London, for example, they have a reputation for being the Microsoft of the Linux world.
It’s simpler to just dismiss all projects with American ties, but FOSS is unique in its collaboration, and drawing a hard line will make life in the FOSS space difficult, if not impossible. On top of that, it’s very unlikely to have any effect towards boycotting the billionaires and politicians that make all our lives awful.
FOSS is unique in that it does best when everyone works together. This is antithetical to most governments, most corporations, and practically every billionaire. I get your desire to diminish American influence, and as an American myself who’s trying to do the same, I have to be careful that I don’t inadvertently harm the philanthropic efforts still happening in my own back yard.
To me, FOSS is a way to rebel against the kind of polemicizing and politicking happening across the globe, because working together without their approval is the last thing many of them want us to do.
Lastly, good luck with your transition! I hope you figure it out and love whatever you ultimately pick!
I really appreciate that. I really do.
Considering how the EU is now looking to make a distro… based on Fedora… I’m more comfortable with the idea.
And you are right, FOSS projects are a collaboration, and I think it’s worth for me to explore the best option for me, rather than what I feel might be the best option.
That said, I’m backing up my Home folder, I’ve got memtest loaded on a flash drive ready to run, and I’ll be prepping Fedora 41 to install once that’s all done :)
Good luck! I’ll be there with you, figuring things out. See you on the Arch Wiki 😉
Well, welcome to the Free side fellow traveller :-) I too ditched Windows for (different) political reasons 25 years ago, and haven’t looked back. You’ll love it here, 'cause if you don’t, you now have the power to change it 'til you do.
I know some people are suspicious of fedora specifically because of its ties with IBM.
In case you’re not aware: Back in the day Ubuntu took off because Debian was maybe a bit too strict on their approach on being stable and rock solid for quite a few of different architectures. There was a time when you could just edit few files and migrate a running system from Debian to Ubuntu, just with way more up-to-date software packages and that’s about the time frame I moved from Debian to Ubuntu too. For quite a few years it was pretty smooth, updates just worked, software versions were up to date and the general experience was more polished than what you could get from Debian at the time.
But that ship has sailed. Ubuntu changes stuff so frequently that the package maintainers can just barely keep up, snapcraft is a steaming pile of shit in my opinion and the stability is faint ghost on what it used to be. Maybe becuse it’s not that compatible with Debian anymore and thus can’t benefit from the original source, maybe for some other reason.
Whatever the case might be, running ubuntu gives you an ubuntu experience, which is very much not the same than debian experience. If you want more streamlined distribution I’d recommend Mint (Debian edition), if you want the rock solid system but with less refined experience where you might need to tweak thing or two manually then go with Debian.
And, mostly for the nitpicking commenters, I know, I grossly simplified things around and cut some corners. I know it’s not as black and white comparison. This is just my generic experience over quite a few years with Linux on Desktop.
FWIW Debian isn’t a non profit. Debian is not a legal entity period. It receives funds via the Software in the Public Interests, which also holds the copyrights, but the project itself just is. It’s probably the world largest, longest running, self organized affiliation group.
Also debian testing is a fine rolling release. maybe sometimes a bit slow on security updates, but for a workstation that isn’t exposed to the internet, and using flatpaks for browser it’s mostly a non issue. That can also be mitigated by installing security updates from Sid. And secure-testing release take care of the most critical issues as well. If you avoid the couple’s weeks right before and after the freeze, it’s generally stable enough.
Debian isn’t a non profit. Debian is not a legal entity period.
A nonprofit organization (NPO) […] is a non-governmental (private) legal entity
legal entity
Sorry, I was on mobile so I over-simplified 'cause digging up the details on Wikipedia wasn’t so easy while also juggling my kid :-) I’ll try to amend the original post.
The latest arch with archinstaler is actually very straight forward from boot to full desktop install. It just does not have a gui for installation. Very ligh, minimum packages by default but works great.
@danielquinn @Showroom7561 The differences between Ubuntu and Debian is trivial, however, Debian does do some things more securely, in a business environment that might be more of a consideration, things like requiring a signed kernel and modules, require that debian packages be signed, but if you’re learning, going to be compiling your own kernel, packages, Ubuntu is the better choice, as those things won’t get in the way and also the support for PPA’s is useful.
You need to start with Linux mint. The errors you are mentioning are common in ubuntu, crashes happen and popup all the time on my ubuntu installations too. But never on Mint. Mint is based on the stable version of ubuntu, that it has long term support and it’s regularly getting updates to make it even more stable and secure. So please start with Mint, or Debian 12 (although Mint is better for new users).
I honestly think mint is an outdated suggestion for beginners, I think immutability is extremely important for someone who is just starting out, as well as starting on KDE since it’s by far the most developed DE that isn’t gnome and their… design decisions are unfortunate for people coming from windows.
I don’t think we should be recommending mint to beginners anymore, if mint makes an immutable, up to date KDE distro, that’ll change, but until then, I think bazzite is objectively a better starting place for beginners.
The mere fact that it generates a new system for you on update and lets you switch between and rollback automatically is enough for me to say it’s better, but it also has more up to date software, and tons of guides (fedora is one of the most popular distros, and bazzite is essentially identical except with some QoL upgrades).
How common is the story of “I was new to linux and completely broke it”? that’s not a good user experience for someone who’s just starting, it’s intimidating, scary, and I just don’t think it’s the best in the modern era. There’s something to be said about learning from these mistakes, but bazzite essentially makes these mistakes impossible.
Furthermore because of the way bazzite works, package management is completely graphical and requires essentially no intervention on the users part, flathub and immutability pair excellently for this reason.
Cinnamon (the default mint environment) doesn’t and won’t support HDR, the security/performance improvements from wayland, mixed refresh rate displays, mixed DPI displays, fractional scaling, and many other things for a very very long time if at all. I don’t understand the usecase for cinnamon tbh, xfce is great if you need performance but don’t want to make major sacrifices, lmde is great if you need A LOT of performance, cinnamon isn’t particularly performant and just a strictly worse version of kde in my eyes from the perspective of a beginner, anyway.
I have 15 years of linux experience and am willing to infinitely troubleshoot if you add me on matrix.
I agree with you completely. No disrespect to Mint, but immutability is (IMO) possibly the most important advancement for Linux adoption in its entire history. I would love to see more distros release immutable versions.
i agree that immutable distros are good for beginners and this is especially true for users who are not exactly tech savvy or don’t want to mess with their systems, but i don’t think the features that cinnamon misses are that important to as many users as you think there are
HDR is nice but not everyone can afford it, and mixed refresh rate displays might be important for gamers and desktop users but not as much in a laptop ( and yes i know that high refresh rates drain the battery but why would you game on battery anyway ), mixed DPI displays ??? only a small subset of users have those. yes the OP is a heavy multitasker but again he is using a laptop (but having support is nice)
however what i do agree with is that fractional scaling is awful in cinnamon and the reason i consider it a serious problem is that high res displays are now common and fractional scaling directly affects user experience
Yeah but there’s so many more reasons to choose kde over cinnamon, there is a massive disparity in security between the two, KDE uses wayland by default, and as a result is SIGNIFICANTLY more secure, just off the top of my head, here’s some problems with cinnamon that will not be resolved anytime soon, that have all already been resolved by this transition KDE-side:
- Every single app can read your keyboard input without asking
- Every single app can see what every single other app is doing without asking
- Apps can fullscreen themselves and go over everything else, because they can control their own window placement to any degree they want, again, without asking.
and in the future the disparity will only go up, just as an example, look at the rate of development on KDE based distros vs cinnamon… cinnamon is entirely outclassed. The KDE team is massive, the cinnamon team is a few people with no real funding. ( if you don’t believe me, here are the stats for the last month cinnamon side: https://github.com/linuxmint/cinnamon/pulse/monthly vs https://github.com/KDE/plasma-desktop/pulse although you’ll note kde isn’t developed on github and that’s just a mirror. It’s not even close, cinnamon has less monthly than 1/10th of the weekly for kde. The KDE text editor alone outpaces all of cinnamon dramatically, https://github.com/KDE/kate/pulse ) The rate of code output and refinement is not even close. The level of customization you can do with KDE vs cinnamon isn’t even comparable. If you run into an issue with cinnamon, you’re SOL, whereas KDE can actually worry about your bugs, because they have so many more developers.
I have tried giving people cinnamon, it has gone disasterously, usually due to DPI problems. But I don’t think it’s a safe recommendation at all, just given the security issues. Also mixed dpi displays are extremely common, many people have 1 4k and 1 1080p screen, for example, or maybe they plug into a tv… it’s much more common than you think.
In short, i think the only reasonable recommendations for beginners in terms of desktop environments, are KDE or Gnome (if they’re mac users and are willing to learn something different), unless their hardware is TERRIBLE and old, in which case they might want lxqt or xfce, maybe.
first this is not a criticism of kde. use what ever you want i just want to keep expectations within the realm of reality.
now about the security issues, afaik those problems exists because X11 not cinnamon specifically which is why cinnamon for Wayland exists ( it’s gonna take WAY longer to mature than KDE), but i don’t think that this is a big problem for most for now since our user base is small so there is much less malware and targeted attacks (well as long as you are not a high profile employee at a company with vast data access privileges )
the mixed dpi displays is a fair point too, i do that sometimes and i would say that i used it more than the people i know who might used it once or twice for a PowerPoint representation or something. programmers, gamers, graphical designers are peanuts compared to office work and regular users ( watching youtube, arguing on the internet etc)
i don’t understand what you mean exactly by performance when talking about a DE ( responsiveness, ram and cpu usage ? …). in terms of cpu and ram usage i’m pretty sure that kde consumes more and in terms responsiveness i would assume that kde is better but how much ( a difference between 5 s and 2 s is huge but from let’s say 80 nanosecond to 60 is just for benchmarks and won’t be noticed in real world usage)
what really holds us back is the lack of commercial software compatibility and at least decent alternatives compared to industry standards
oh yeah, and nvidia drivers + wifi and bluetouth
but i don’t think that this is a big problem for most for now since our user base is small so there is much less malware and targeted attacks (well as long as you are not a high profile employee at a company with vast data access privileges )
Security is not as huge of a problem on linux as it is on windows for sure. But EVERY SINGLE proprietary app you use can snoop on EVERYTHING. and I do not trust proprietary apps, beginners especially will use a ton of proprietary software. Remember that we’re recommending to a beginner, not a linux evangelist who is willing to do anything to make linux/foss work for them.
i don’t understand what you mean exactly by performance when talking about a DE ( responsiveness, ram and cpu usage ? …). in terms of cpu and ram usage i’m pretty sure that kde consumes more and in terms responsiveness i would assume that kde is better but how much ( a difference between 5 s and 2 s is huge but from let’s say 80 nanosecond to 60 is just for benchmarks and won’t be noticed in real world usage)
If you use KDE on a laptop from like 2002 it will be a HORRIBLE experience, they use way too much ram, way too much rendering (with animations and whatnot), absolute cpu and gpu hogs for a machine from back then. that’s pretty much the reason xfce and lxde exist. It’ll also be real bad on cinnamon. Maybe this is better now, I haven’t tried in a while.
The only reason I see for a beginner not to choose KDE over xfce is if they have a laptop from the 32 bit era. Elsewise, KDE if you use windows, Gnome if you use macos. The development speed alone and the fact that they have proper funding means in 20 years they’ll probably still be around, cinnamon development is nearly dead by comparison, we shouldn’t be encouraging people to use significantly less supported software unless there’s a compelling reason, and for cinnamon, there really just isn’t. People won’t want to relearn everything when cinnamon breaks for them, might as well start on the most well supported stuff for all hardware.
I personally don’t use KDE, but I don’t think we should be recommending anything but KDE/Gnome to beginners without very good reason. Sure, use whatever you want, but that isn’t a valid course of action for someone who doesn’t even know where to start, and the obvious answer for where to start is KDE.
I think many people here have been linux users for so long that they forget their solution isn’t the best choice for beginners.
Security is not as huge of a problem on linux as it is on windows for sure. But EVERY SINGLE proprietary app you use can snoop on EVERYTHING. and I do not trust proprietary apps, beginners especially will use a ton of proprietary software. Remember that we’re recommending to a beginner, not a linux evangelist who is willing to do anything to make linux/foss work for them.
i don’t trust them either but from what i have seen most don’t care
The only reason I see for a beginner not to choose KDE over xfce is if they have a laptop from the 32 bit era.
this is a bit of a stretch
the development rate is a deciding factor for sure and i agree that we shouldn’t encourage using software that is considered “obsolete”
i don’t agree on everything and maybe you’re right i still don’t get why they dropped support for kde but still support MATE
i don’t trust them either but from what i have seen most don’t care
They get this benefit for free on KDE. Even if they don’t care, it’s still better for them.
this is a bit of a stretch
I don’t see how it’s a stretch, someone was posting with basically this exact problem on one of the linux forums on lemmy like, last week. I don’t feel like digging up the post but this happens sometimes.
i don’t agree on everything and maybe you’re right i still don’t get why they dropped support for kde but still support MATE
Makes absolutely no sense for a beginner distro.
Can I just say thank you for offering help like this. I have wanted to switch to Linux for years, but due to proprietary software I simply must use I can’t.
If I ever get away from needing this software can I take you up on the offer?
What is matrix lol
it’s essentially a federated messenger, just like lemmy is a federated reddit.
It’s likely you can get that proprietary software working, if you want to try.
My username is on my profile!
I would throw out that Windows executables work surprisingly well on Linux these days via “wine.” I use EndeavorOS and it’s pretty much no work on my part, I double-click a .exe and it starts it up via wine. I think the only thing that’s been spotty for me is Meshmixer crashes sometimes, but it’s also abandonware so I’m not sure it actually runs better on Windows.
I use Linux sine 1999 and I prefer Mint. It works just fine for everyday users. The thing wiht Mint is that it has setting panels for most things, and it makes sense as a design. It might not have the latest support, but what it does, it does well. The same can not be said about other distros in conjunction to care-free users.
Honestly, your usage of linux since 1999 is why I don’t trust you know what’s best for beginners. I give tons of people linux, mostly the elderly, cinnamon has been an absolutely terrible experience for them. You’re highly experienced and used to something that works for you, the best choice for beginners changes more than you do.
but what it does, it does well.
Can you not say this about fedora/bazzite?
The same can not be said about other distros in conjunction to care-free users.
The very purpose of an immutable distro is to stop carefree users from doing exactly that, until mint makes an immutable distro, it simply isn’t the best choice for beginners.
Do they not care about mixed refresh rate displays, mixed dpi displays, the security issues involved in x11, etc? I think they will prefer if those things just work. Mint doesn’t have that, sure what works works well, but that’s true for fedora/bazzite too… and more works.
this! and whilst i don’t know the hardware support for new framework models on mint, i recon it’s pretty good.
