With support ending for Windows 10, the most popular desktop operating system in the world currently, possibly 240 million pcs may be sent to the landfill. This is mostly due to Windows 11’s exorbitant requirements. This will most likely result in many pcs being immediately outdated, and prone to viruses. GNU/Linux may be these computers’ only secure hope, what do you think?
…What does the writer think support end means? Microsoft bricks the PC as soon as the support period ends?
They’re going to just keep using Windows 10, security be damned. Probably a good number of users who weren’t keeping their PC up to date even when Microsoft was forcing updates on them.
I still see XP pcs in the wild sometimes
Lots of hospitals seem to be running XP
I work in the behavioral health field as an IT security admin and network with hospitals/health clinics all all the time. The amount of them using XP and 7 in some capacity should scare everyone. The other security admins know it’s an issue, but they just laugh it off.
I tell them if I were an immoral man, their company would be compromised just based off of that information.
Yeah I work for an emergency management SaaS company and we block outdated OSs and browsers and it’s wild how we will occasionally get pushback from potential new customers who are surprised we don’t support their outdated IT infrastructure due to the security risk
“what do you mean you don’t service tin cans on a string?!”
Hell I’ve spotted some old systems still running a Telex exchange and Windows 3.1
Yep. Came across a computer recently still running Windows 2000 on it. Fan sounded like a truck with a bad lifter tick 😂
We have a piece of test equipment that runs windows 2000. It has to be quarantined on its own subnet isolated from the rest of the network.
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Looking forward to more, bigger ddos attacks with so many unsecured computers sitting around… :(
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Good point XP held on forever
The stenographer for our local zoning & planning board still uses a XP netbook. Couldn’t believe my eyes when I first saw it
Could be some software that is no longer supported.
Good point. What about hardware drivers? Do the OEMs use OS support deprecation, as an excuse to bail on shit? Or are driver updates irrelevant to a dead OS bc it’s in stasis?
My though was their preferred stenography keyboard was made by a company that is now defunct, ergo no updates. Possibly could be overcome with techy means, but I’m guessing the stenographer doesn’t have those.
I mean stopping Windows updates is really more a win than a loss half the time. They’ve forcefully installed so much of the shitware in Windows 10 updates that makes Windows 11 awful. It took me an hour to strip all the bullshit off of my partner’s Windows 10 that he left to auto-update.
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Half of India tech industry still runs on windows 7.
Same here
I’ll keep using the computer I bought for as long as possible even if support for windows 10 ends
Agreed. There usually needs to be a big demand for a shift. Kind of like with Android development. Things tend to slow down once they run out of good ideas.
For Microsoft I think the next big move could be for a whole solar system calendar, e.g. symmetry 454, then synchronise that with a local family/group calendars, social events integration etc, throw in something like bing coin, then throwing it all into a big new multi compatible platform available to all of XP, 7, 10 and 11, add some games shit in there to compete with steam deck, then throw in some hardware CPU cooling accessories to prop up the trash software until they spend the next ten years updating like Lenovo bridge, it so that they can let optimizing their software enough to not fuck things up.
As for how the hell they plan on making money from it all, I suspect that the accessories will eventually lead to subscription costs for certain OEM support. This will encourage OEM manufacturers to engage directly with consumers and retailers to invest in the recycling process so that they can jack up prices across the board.
Use this money to add their shit into some NASA computers for extra hype. No big long term plan, just getting their logo and their foot in the door with the next big direction for computing lol
People aren’t going to throw the PCs out. They are going to continue using Windows 10 for years without security updates.
I still saw XP installs a decade after support had ended.
“a decade after support had ended” for Windows XP is not until April next year.
It depends on the definition of “support ended”. Like, there are various forms of extended support that you can pay for for versions of Windows, and some companies do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP#Support_lifecycle
Support for the original release of Windows XP (without a service pack) ended on August 30, 2005.[4] Both Windows XP Service Pack 1 and 1a were retired on October 10, 2006,[4] and both Windows 2000 and Windows XP SP2 reached their end of support on July 13, 2010, about 24 months after the launch of Windows XP Service Pack 3.[4] The company stopped general licensing of Windows XP to OEMs and terminated retail sales of the operating system on June 30, 2008, 17 months after the release of Windows Vista.[114] However, an exception was announced on April 3, 2008, for OEMs producing what it defined as “ultra low-cost personal computers”, particularly netbooks, until one year after the availability of Windows 7 on October 22, 2009. Analysts felt that the move was primarily intended to compete against Linux-based netbooks, although Microsoft’s Kevin Hutz stated that the decision was due to apparent market demand for low-end computers with Windows.[115]
So for those, we’re all definitely a decade past the end of normal support. However, they have their extended support packages that can be purchased, and we aren’t a decade past the end of those…but most users probably aren’t actually getting those:
On April 14, 2009, Windows XP exited mainstream support and entered the extended support phase; Microsoft continued to provide security updates every month for Windows XP, however, free technical support, warranty claims, and design changes were no longer being offered. Extended support ended on April 8, 2014, over 12 years after the release of Windows XP; normally Microsoft products have a support life cycle of only 10 years.[118] Beyond the final security updates released on April 8, no more security patches or support information are provided for XP free-of-charge; “critical patches” will still be created, and made available only to customers subscribing to a paid “Custom Support” plan.[119] As it is a Windows component, all versions of Internet Explorer for Windows XP also became unsupported.[120]
In January 2014, it was estimated that more than 95% of the 3 million automated teller machines in the world were still running Windows XP (which largely replaced IBM’s OS/2 as the predominant operating system on ATMs); ATMs have an average lifecycle of between seven and ten years, but some have had lifecycles as long as 15. Plans were being made by several ATM vendors and their customers to migrate to Windows 7-based systems over the course of 2014, while vendors have also considered the possibility of using Linux-based platforms in the future to give them more flexibility for support lifecycles, and the ATM Industry Association (ATMIA) has since endorsed Windows 10 as a further replacement.[121] However, ATMs typically run the embedded variant of Windows XP, which was supported through January 2016.[122] As of May 2017, around 60% of the 220,000 ATMs in India still run Windows XP.[123]
Furthermore, at least 49% of all computers in China still ran XP at the beginning of 2014. These holdouts were influenced by several factors; prices of genuine copies of later versions of Windows in the country are high, while Ni Guangnan of the Chinese Academy of Sciences warned that Windows 8 could allegedly expose users to surveillance by the United States government,[124] and the Chinese government banned the purchase of Windows 8 products for government use in May 2014 in protest of Microsoft’s inability to provide “guaranteed” support.[125] The government also had concerns that the impending end of support could affect their anti-piracy initiatives with Microsoft, as users would simply pirate newer versions rather than purchasing them legally. As such, government officials formally requested that Microsoft extend the support period for XP for these reasons. While Microsoft did not comply with their requests, a number of major Chinese software developers, such as Lenovo, Kingsoft and Tencent, will provide free support and resources for Chinese users migrating from XP.[126] Several governments, in particular those of the Netherlands and the United Kingdom, elected to negotiate “Custom Support” plans with Microsoft for their continued, internal use of Windows XP; the British government’s deal lasted for a year, and also covered support for Office 2003 (which reached end-of-life the same day) and cost £5.5 million.[127]
For the typical, individual end user, one probably wants to have been off Windows XP by 2008.
Windows 10 IoT LTSC version will be receiving security patches until 2032 its what all my work VMS are based on right now.
You’re ignoring the fact that they ended XP support for months and then brought it back for literal years after so much outcry
The problem is most people don’t have the technical ability or interest in switching to Linux. Here is the solution:
- We, as Linux users, must be better advocates for the platform to untechnical people.
- We should make ourselves available to help people make the transition.
The solution is donate them. Don’t send them to a landfill. Give poor students a free laptop with Linux installed, etc. There are probably thousands of uses for an old computer that are better than sending it to a landfill.
I will take all of them.
Save some for me!
Make correct marketing,create tools which will user switch OS with one click,create tech support gor usual people with small prices
Marketing is monopolized with Google and Facebook. Manufacturers and Microsoft won’t make one-click installs happen. Tech support would be chicken and egg problem. Ugh…
Linux doesn’t support my DAW or audio interface. I’m not throwing away thousands of pounds of software and equipment to use Linux.
I would happily give it a go if cubase / uad interfaces were supported.
For me, it’s the lack of support for the audio HW. Infuriating.
Your DAW and audio interface doesn’t support Linux.*
Yeah, it’s a bummer, but you are in a small portion of effected computer users, still others can benefit from longer support.
None of the main adobe suite works on Linux either, so let’s not pretend my use case is so narrow. Literally none of the programs I use to work (Cubase, Audition, After Effects, Illustrator, Premiere, yes I can install a virtual windows machine but that completely defeats the purpose) works with Linux. And from what I gather last time I researched this, hardly any audio interfaces are Linux compatible. Most of the games I want to play also are not Linux-compatible.
Fact of the matter is, despite the large dedicated userbase (which I appreciate), it still has a giant gap where many prosumers and casual users cannot utilise it. It’s no good saying “ahhh well YOU’RE not compatible with US! No u!”. I’d love to switch and tbh am strongly considering a setup for live PA that’s Linux based, in the hope that it brings greater stability. But it’s going to be a large investment of time, and I’ll have to buy a different audio interface if I have a hope of making it work.
The Adobe case is a big one. For me, it’s lightroom that has no real Linux counterpart. The app itself isn’t where the magic is - darktable exists. The magic is in the interapp interoperability - bi-directional syncs and edits in any platform. FOSS is very unlikely to create something like this (would love to be wrong) as it’s less of a tech challenge than an enterprise architecture challenge with a component systems falling in line. This sort of thing requires money to be executed effectively, unfortunately.
Really hope overall user base in Linux can grow enough to catch attention of SW/HW manufacturers, but have been hoping this for many, many years…
And this is a huge barrier for a lot of users, a massive roadblock. But the article talk about houndres of millions of computers, my point was just about that even if millions like you cannot switch, still in this statistics are millions that can especially non-professional that do not make audio or video, but that are going to throw away a working machine.
I feel like you might feel being personally directed by my comment, because of your respond with “YOU’re not compatible”. Maybe it was bad wording, sorry. What I ment was that it can be frustrating to see “Linux doesn’t support …” when actually it has everything needed to support this software and the burden to make it available is on the software developer. Like saying that USB-C doesn’t support iPhone 13. Lack of it still hurts the Linux side anyway, but I just don’t want misconsaptions about which side should make a port happen.
Yep I definitely took it wrong, one of the problems with text only communication… No body language or audio cues! No worries.
The devs of my audio interface have definitely been asked a fair bit about Linux compatibility… But considering they’ve not even bothered bringing their new DAW to PC, it seems they’re strongly focussed on mac ecosystems only for the foreseeable.
Personally I think compatibility should be a two way street pun not intended! But unfortunately companies tend to vote with our wallets, so until Linux becomes even more established I doubt they will dedicate much if any resources to making their devices work on it. Shame.
I bought a new audio interface for live work a few months back, went for an audient id24 partly because it’s Linux compatible (although no native drivers). So I will get stuck in at some point. I started using PCs back when floppy disks were actually floppy so I’m not afraid of command line stuff!
For me, it’s not the DAW (Reaper works fine), but this is not the case for every DAW and it must be recognized that switching DAWs is non-trivial (nor should it be expected). In my case, it’s the HW. I can likely get my interface to run (unsupported) but my Maschine is a non-starter. Yes - I know there are a few drivers for similar HW around written by clever folk who’ve done reverse engineering, but it only covers a few minor use cases and is, at best a science experiment and not something one should ever depend on even if it did work.
SW is a problem too - yes most plugins can be coaxed into working, but certainly not all. Add to that the underlying tech is usually wine, and it’s a perpetual game of whackamole to maybe get the stuff you paid for to run.
The folks writing these bridging tools are not too blame - it’s brilliant, wonderful work. Fundamentally, it’s an act of good will that one can’t rely afford to fully depend on if it even does work. I love FOSS, but it’s not everything - I certainly don’t expect a free ride, but I do want the option to pay to run what I want.
The issue is the HW and SW manufacturers - they need a critical mass of potential users to be bothered to commit to developing for Linux. My hope is that as user bases grow (in places like India) the cost/benefit analysis shifts.
This is interesting and concerning… I don’t need a lot of plugins for live stuff, but I was definitely planning to use my Maschine!
So is that confirmed completely inoperable in Linux? No idea how I’d trigger parts without it.
Maybe there should be a centralised GitXXX documentation „Windows to Linux” with everything from choosing a distro to troubleshooting and links to appropriate wikis. There are so many guides/blogs, each saying something different
Windows now has a How to Install Linux tutorial…which seems odd.
I’d also bet that a huge portion of those offices rely on at least some kind of proprietary software that doesn’t play nice/officially support Linux. MS Office, for example, or Autodesk’s stuff. When I saw what a headache it would be to get these working on Linux, I just shrugged and decided I’d keep my dual boot available for when I inevitably have need.
You’re turning up the cost dial for every additional workaround or adjustment you ask of people. Just to save what is fundamentally seen as $50-200 up front cost on a system for a new Windows 11 Pro license.
The article and post title itself alludes to the fact that windows 11 won’t support millions of machines, so a w11 license is useless. And if you meant you can buy a PC that supports w11 and is worth using, for $50, I need to consult with you for the world’s best shopping tips
Tip 1: it’s free if you steal it.
I would use Linux but I heard that it doesn’t work seamlessly with NVIDIA gaming hardware
Depends honestly but for most people it will work fine if you use something like Pop OS, Nobara, or other distros that set it up for you (or you know how to set it up yourself but that’s unlikely to be the case)
It is far too confusing what to use - even as someone who uses Linux on various servers, a media centre, WSL and used to run a Gentoo laptop I still don’t know which distro to use, let alone which of KDE/Gnome, X11/Wayland, init/systemd etc.
just try one in a vm?
also, most of the differences are not that big, any one of them will work fine for most people.
Use whatever is popular and has a cool logo. Distro is basically a software library, preinstalled programs and default settings. You can transform any distro to behave like the other one.
KDE, Gnome, XFCE…? Which is looking better for you or which one was default. Init system? Which was the default. X11/Wayland? Wayland. Go with X11 only if Wayland is having problems with your graphics card.
Exactly. I tried using Linux and I just don’t understand how to use it, and I consider myself fairly tech savvy. It would bring my productivity to a grinding halt if I had to switch to Linux.
Did you install gentoo or something? Zorin or Mint is just install and use it (just like Windows)
There are many many outdated patterns how to do things in Windows that are cemented in public knowledge. Running random executable installers from the web giving them superuser permissions is I thing the most popular one.
How to share all user settings between system installations? How to change the logo in the desktop bar? How to add a directory to an applications bar? How to change system build-in keyboard shortcut? How to reinstall just the system keeping the programs? How to make a file run on a shortcut? Those are things I use daily, that are impossible or need some hacky programs to work on anything other than Linux, I would die if I had to switch back now.
What if, sometime after Win 10 loses support a virus takes advantage of the lack of patches and propagates across all the machines with a simple message “This operating system is no longer supported, please click here to upgrade.” The button then runs a script to download and install a user friendly Linux distro. The world is then saved.
Chaotic good
Make it install temple OS, so that it can save not only the planet but also our souls. Amen. 🙏🙏🙏🙏
My kind of hopes.
Microsoft: Arbitrarily increases the system requirements for Windows 11 even though it runs perfectly fine on older pcs just to get people to buy new computers
Also Microsoft: Why’s there so much waste??
I found it absolutely amazing they claim my pretty decent laptop from 2016 can’t run Windows 11. Laptops haven’t gotten that much better since then. Also, supposing it actually couldn’t, it’s a fucking operating system. It should be doing everything it can to stay out of the way. What kind of bloated monstrosity is Windows 11 that my laptop can’t run it?
It’s the trusted platform module which I know almost nothing about but I’m sure is fucking stupid. My monster of a desktop from 2018 also can’t run win11, and the only reason is my cpu is missing the tpm that it requires.
When has MS indicated they care about waste in the least?
This is a marketing page that any big company has a version of. I meant by action, not lip service
There is a link immediately over the headline in the url I shared. Read the report. I used to sell green asset disposition of electronics. It’s been an industry for a long time. It makes a difference. See what you want to see man. I can intro you to people in that business if you’d like to pick their brains. I don’t know who owns this at Microsoft but I can ask contacts there, if you’d like me to help get you an intro.
As I understand it, it wasn’t arbitrary. Microsoft has wanted to require TPMs for two decades at this point. Once there’s high enough adoption they can roll out their version of trusted computing.
TPM modules are not new, it’s TPM 2.0 that got problematic.
If you run Windows 10, chances are you have TPM 1.4, which is perfectly fine, but Microsoft wants moar
We all know that won’t happen because most users don’t give a shit about things like conserving hardware or the resources that went into making them, and will just use this as an excuse to splurge on the latest shiny device.
Fuck the users
Herein lies the rub where the discourse online always fails. It’s easy to blame the rich, corporations, politicians, etc. but the end of the day they’re simply doing what the masses want. We are the problem.
Now that said, I understand the appeal of blaming a smaller segment of the population because it’s easier to shift blame and it’s easier to force change that way, but rest assured Apple stops making a new phone every year their brand dies unless everyone stops doing it. They’re doing it because we are conditioned to want it.
We are the underlying problem. All of us.
Edit - having my point proven is amazing.
If you’re saying everyone is providing your point, I think you disproved your own point.
They’re doing it because we are conditioned to want it.
Conditioning a behavior is basic psych101. It’s a controlled external stimulus which illicits a desirable action from the subject. So a conditioned consumer is subject to external stimulie which illicits them to spend. I wouldn’t blame the subject here, I’d blame the one doing the conditioning.
Regardless of all that, you are right but so wrong. We are all to blame, but I mean corporations and us. Politicians and the oligarchs aren’t responsible for what you or I do. What they are responsible for is manipulating systems to benefit themselves over the interests of the general public.
Since politicians and the business elite wield so much influence that makes them more responsible than you or I who really can’t make a big difference on our own. You’re blaming the proletariat for being the proletariat, but we don’t choose whether or not we are. You can work as hard as you can your entire life and you’ll never amount to the level of power and influence Elon, Jeff, Mark, Bill, or Steve had/have.
Nah, that’s shit. We are not the problem. The people in this thread don’t seem to be the kind of people to go out and buy the latest device every 6 months. I keep my phones for years until either the performance or battery becomes nearly unusable for me. I install Linux on older hardware (and newer hardware) and buy new hardware when necessary, not every time it comes out.
You can blame the average person, sure, but saying all of us is just incorrect.
fuck me harder ms yes daddy yes please mmmm thats good keep going harder harder HARDER YES
fr tho, that ‘smaller segment of the population’ owns the means of production/computation. so yes, I do blame them. and so should you and anyone with more that a couple folds in their brain.
Nah I haven’t bought a new machine in years, sticking to the old school bro. But I get it, a lot of people who are gamers or streamers would definitely buy in and I get why too because so long as the internet speeds keep increasing, there will be more streamers for the next big game or influencer chit chat etc
Who the fuck throws out their computer when it’s still working???
A lot of businesses. I’ve stocked an entire network lab out of waste bins from buildings with tech companies in them. Laptops, monitors, network gear, cabling. I once scored a whole box of 100W USB-C chargers.
You could make a living reselling stuff online.
I’m sorry, 100W USB-C is throwaway stuff now? Wut?
Federal, state and local government , multinational companies and boomers.
Literally just talked to my mother-in-law who was talking about throwing out her laptop because Windows 10 is losing support and she can’t upgrade to Windows 11.
It would probably run linux perfectly.
But I would never put linux on it. I am not doing tech support for my MIL who just admitted to me that she “locked down her machine because she fixed the registry issues windows has and turned on ipv6 on her router” and alluded to changing other settings but she cant understand why her “wifi keeps dropping out” and thinks its because the neighbors installed a ring doorbell.
Except for that last part, sounds somewhat plausible…
Doorbell is wireless, from temu, and is missing FCC compliance sticker.
Just a hunch.
Don’t let her throw just send me😫
State governments usually are required to place all of their computers up for sale through surplus. (Hard drives usually removed and destroyed). I have been through that process at a State College and a University. They aren’t just thrown away. I imagine there is a similar process for federal computer.
True they give it to “recyclers” who try to sell what they can and throw the rest. I know this because I used to work for the “recyclers”
Yeah, when access to raspberry pi’s and such was none existant I knew a few people who would pick up old Optiplex computers and such to use as media servers and such. Old dells used to be very reliable. Throw whatever distro on there gui or not, and the shitty graphics cards wouldn’t matter much
All of whom have processes software and employees who are not prepared to swap to Linux
If these were all stacked laptops, stacked on top of each other, they would form a stack 600 km above the Moon.
Ummm… what??
Assuming 3 cm thick laptop x 240 mil = 7,200 km. Moon is on average 380,000 km away. Even 30 cm thick laptops (lol) would only get you to 72,000 km.
They’re stacking on the longest dimension after opening up the laptop.
XD that would still only get you half way to the moon!
They said “600 km above the Moon”, so assuming that the laptops are 2.5mm thick, and stacked on the surface of the moon…
Yeah, well, a piece of paper folded in half 50 times would reach two thirds of the way to the Sun, so take that!!
Although I’m not surprised, it is interesting that the same big tech companies like Apple and Microsoft taking stances on being “environmentally conscious” while also ignoring forced obsoletion of old hardware. Your average office environment just needs basic email, document/excel editing software and a browser. Now to continue to do these base functions, they have to buy new PCs to do the same exact thing. And it’s not even faster anymore due to the bloat.
If tech wants to preach about the environment, they best start figuring out ways to keep computers out of the landfills.
Although I’m not surprised, it is interesting that the same big tech companies like Apple and Microsoft taking stances on being “environmentally conscious” while also ignoring forced obsoletion of old hardware.
That’s purely greenwashing marketing hype, with Apple being the worst offender. Now Microsoft seems to be following in their footsteps, although they’re still better in this regard than Apple.
But buying new things is good for the economy!
(/s in case it’s needed)Was it EVER faster though? My experience with Windows has always been that they release new versions based on upcoming hardware specs and unless you spend top-dollar on the very latest hardware for their next release, you are going to see things moving slower on the new desktop. That’s one of things I’ve enjoyed about linux, you can pretty much always upgrade the OS on an older machine without concern of taking a hit on the performance, and sometimes you even get a boost.
It will be mostly Enterprise upgrading. The average consumer buys the cheapest laptop they can get. They won’t be upgrading. I think nowadays not many average consumers even use computers. They just do everything on a phone.
Most enterprise is going to continue to pay for extended windows 10 support especially for things like embedded control systems running windows 10 ltsc/iot.
It’s 50/50. The last Enterprise I worked at they would NEVER agree to pay that. They’d rather get new machines
Windows 11 won’t work on my laptop. Installed Linux a few weeks ago. Works better now than it did with Windows 10.
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>buy cheap laptop because "it broken no work ooha booga" >install Linux Mint on it >resell it at a higher price >profitdeleted by creator
I wouldn’t. GNOME is too far from the Windows Experience™ for it to be comfortable for them.
Maybe. Personally tho I would put them on Mint or Pop, maybe Fedora Silverblue
LMAO the clickbait delusion… has anybody not learnt for how long people stuck to Windows XP and 7? 10 is incomparably more secure and robust than 7 was, and 11 is almost a meaningless cosmetic upgrade. People that do not want to, will not use Linux, and keep using 10. Comfort and compatibility take precedence over security and privacy. People that do install Linux, however, will still want to keep 10 or 11 separately installed, and Microsoft officially suggests workaround to install 11 on any computers.
Exactly. Most people don’t care about linux, why is this so hard to understand?
That picture generated by Dall-E looks like it came straight out of Wall-E.
