If anyone didn’t have time to watch, it was a lot of filler questions as usual. Like 5 mins of Rich trying to get Trevor to explain something specific about what makes Pederson such a good coach for him (basically Trevor appreciates that Doug trusts him and lets him play free).

An interesting bit was when he asked about the knee brace. I heard this somewhere else, but it was interesting to hear directly from Trevor: He said the Titans game was the first game he has felt 100% from the knee injury and it was really nice to be able to play free again. He mentioned it sucks to be in a game and not be able to react or move the way you want to, which could explain the little slump he was in for 3-4 games where our line was looking so much worse (because he wasn’t slipping around the pocket like usual, I think).

As someone who only sees this stuff when it gets posted here… I can’t imagine sitting down to watch any significant length of this kind of show. Guys are just SHOUTING at the camera nonstop. It’s no wonder people walk around so pissed off and on edge all the time, lol.

It’s kind of a shame because I’m sure they’ve done a lot of research and determined this is what keeps attention span the most. But then you realize they’re basically taking like… 5-10 seconds worth of stats and information and playing shitty improv on top of it.

Texans: Really tough matchup. They already got us once this season and this one probably scares me a little more than the Ravens.
Bengals: Without Burrow, this one isn’t as scary. I want to see us win every week, but I’m bummed we don’t get to play them at full strength. This was going to be a really huge game for us just in terms of measuring where we are. Now it’s more of a game we’re just going to be expected to win, which is always kind of dangerous.
Ravens: Another tough one. With them losing Mark Andrews, I wonder if they’re going to be the same powerhouse on offense they have been. But they have been very consistent this year so I think we’re going to have to be playing really well to get a win.
Bucs: This one scares me a bit for some reason. I’m pretty sure this would be chalked up as “Jags should win,” but I don’t know if the Jags have earned my trust as a team that wins the ones we should win yet. It’s just hard to get that taste out of my mouth after so many years of failing to meet expectations, haha.
Panthers: Really hope we win this one. It’ll be a pretty brutal loss if we don’t.
Titans: Divison games are never a given, and it’s the Titans. They haven’t looked very good this season, but even our game last week might have looked different if they got those two explosive plays early instead of late. Who knows. Hope our guys show up ready to play eithe rway.

They made some interesting points on this if anyone didn’t feel like listening.

I was expecting them to say the most obvious issue was our o-line, which they did address as an issue, but they said the real thing going wrong is 1) missing Zay Jones and 2) how we’re using Ridley.

The point made was that without Zay, we don’t have the tools to kind of scheme guys open like we were. They were saying as good as Kirk is at what he does, he’s a very one-trick pony type who has to be in the slot. So then with Zay gone we end up with someone like Agnew trying to run routes with Kirk to get him openings. Instead of bringing Ridley inside and using him over the middle to kind of scheme stuff open, we keep just sticking him on the outside and asking him to run long routes on an island. Since teams know that’s what we’re doing, they just cheat up and mug him at the line and screw up his route/slow him down.

Some people are saying you can’t do anything with the personnel we have, but I think that isn’t entirely true.

Look around the league and you can see quite a few different approaches to dealing with below-average o-lines. Obviously it’s all easier if your line is great, but I think there are still levers our staff could pull to make it easier.

1. Stop mis-using Ridley. He is constantly on an island on the edge being asked to just clear out and run some shit that doesn’t interact with any of the other routes. It’s them saying, “go win” and not realizing halfway through the season that he a) isn’t winning or b) isn’t getting enough time to win on those long routes with our o-line.

2. Go back in time and keep Manhertz. We were getting a ton of value out of Manhertz last season. I know “blocking TE” is about as boring as it gets as a far, but just look at the results we got last year compared to this year. Other than Jawaan, there’s no major change outside Manhertz and I don’t think Jawaan was the problem.

3. Move the pocket. Doug made a comment about being limited by Trevor’s injury, so the optimistic part of me wants to say *maybe* this is why they haven’t been doing this. Maybe rolling out/throwing while he’s on the move has been the thing his knee injury has impacted. it would make sense not to come out and broadcast to opposing teams that “yeah, I can’t really throw on the move right now or roll out,” because then it’s one less thing they need to gameplan for. But doesn’t it feel like he normally rolls out and scrambles to extend more often? The last couple games since his knee injury it feels like he’s not scrambling to extend. He is just picking a direction and running straight.

IF he is able to move/roll, then I think we need to just pull a guy and overload one side and let Trevor roll out that way. If nothing else, he’s at least running away from the unblocked guys and will know what direction they’re coming from. Right now, he can’t even reliably say, “I should be safe from my blindside” or “I should be safe on the interior,” etc, because everybody is losing. On a pure dropback he’s just getting surrounded.

So roll him one direction and make all the defenders get in eachother’s way as they funnel in to chase him.

I don’t know, man. I feel like if you’re dinging him for something, it would be… not breaking out of the pocket maybe and avoiding unblocked defenders on his own more often? To me, it just seems like he makes the same rate of throws the really good guys make, but he’s throwing into tighter windows and with less time and no ability to get in a rhythm.

If anything, what he’s being asked to do is a lot harder than some of the big name guys. Just because a throw is far, it doesn’t mean it’s harder. Trevor’s success rate on deep passes has been one of the best in the league, but we’ve barely thrown any, too. We don’t throw them because the line can’t buy him time.

If the line can’t buy him time, then the defense knows they can sit down shallow and play aggressive. That’s likely why his deep pass success rate is so good, too. It’s a surprise to defenses when he has enough time for someone to run more than 5-7 yards.

Trevor is playing on hard mode compared to all these other guys people are calling elite, except maybe Stroud. I’m already willing to accept that Stroud is probably going to be a better QB than Trevor, but if Stroud keeps up his current pace, he’s also going to be better than Mahomes.

But it’s not “his” red zone effectiveness. I guess that’s my larger point. When the field condenses, it puts even more emphasis on playcalling and guys getting open/winning matchups. Also, watch redzone and you’ll see *so many* touchdown passes where a QB is in the redzone, nobody is open, but the line holds for 3-4 seconds and the play breaks down. Somebody comes loose and it’s an easy pitch and catch.

Trevor never gets that because our line never holds 3-4 seconds, especially in the red zone. Our playcallers know our pass pro is terrible and they have no good plays, so they also just run the ball like crazy in the redzone which brings down his numbers.

I feel like the problem is you’re listing guys who aren’t in the league anymore and played during a different meta phase of the game. Other than them, the only guy you can really point to right now with worse tools around him is arguably Stroud, who probably still has a better pass blocking o-line than Trevor.

So I just don’t quite understand why we expect Trevor to be elite and putting up gaudy numbers with the worst tools, yet we hand wave the fact that every other guy we list as elite (except Stroud) has significantly better tools.

If you could dig me a bunch of “elite” QBs up with worse o-lines even, then I would give it to you that he needs to do better. But I didn’t even bring up playcalling.

You can use excelling scheming to work around a really bad o-line. You can be clever and put in the work to prepare for a game and get the plays just perfect for quick shots and trickery. Some coordinators can do it. Our playcalling is very very bad. Our running success rate is very very bad because our line also sucks at run blocking. So the other team knows we’re going to pass, they’re not scared of our run, and everybody knows our WRs have to run short stuff because Trevor is only going to have 2 to 2.5 seconds to throw the ball before he gets his head taken off.

Clap your hands, count to two, and imagine how far someone can run in that time. Imagine how quickly you’d have to scan from left to right to evaluate whether somebody is open in two seconds. Then imagine it with giant linemen in your face and when you have spent the last 30 mins getting sawed in half over and over.

hat high for Ridley". He was made out to be a savior. I remember all the hype and now that he isn’t perfor

Oh yeah I worded that badly. I agree with you. I just didn’t phrase my point right: I was trying to say the people who ranked us at #16 before the season must not have even had that high of expectations for us.

I felt like I was hearing our WR group talked about as a potential top 5 group going into the season. Now I think you’d be laughed at if you tried to call them even top 10 or maybe top 15.

Yeah I was surprised when I looked up the receiver rankings and saw chiefs/ravens higher. I would guess/rate them higher than that, too. I think honestly we’ve suffered a *ton* from not having Zay Jones. Our offense has looked completely impotent since he went out.

Thanks! Yeah, I don’t know why but I always make the mistake of dipping into game threads. It feels like I never have to spend long before I see people shitting on Trevor and it just makes me want to yell that he’s one of the few good things we have going.

I think I can’t wholeheartedly disagree with you about Trevor after this season. Last season, I would’ve said you are being too quick to put a ceiling on him. I still *kinda* feel that way–like maybe we’re seeing a neutered version of him because everything around him is worse than it appears.

Take Kirk, Engram, and Zay, for example. They were all decent but not great (worse than decent for Engram) in other places with other QBs. They got here with Trevor and immediately looked great.

So sometimes I wonder if we’re giving those guys credit or our play calling credit (last year, not this year) for their turn around. Instead, is Trevor just making middle of the pack to worse guys look like legit WRs? What would it look like if he had even one true weapon like most of these other elite QBs have. People love on Burrow all the time but he has like 2/3 amazing WRs. Mahomes had Tyreek and Kelce. Josh Allen has Diggs. Cousins has looked like an elite QB most of the time with Jefferson. Peyton and Brady always had their guys too.

And meanwhile, Trevor is in year 3 and we thought Ridley was going to be the best WR he’s had. Instead, it’s looking like… Christian Kirk is the best WR Trevor has had to throw to. Idk, it just feels like maybe that gets overlooked too much.

I agree with you on your points, although I don’t know who Cleveland is. Assuming some kinda draft prospect? or a FA that may be available?

I lean toward trusting Trev, too. I think sometimes we expect him to be superman. Like the QB is going to be reflective of what’s going on around him. He can’t throw it to himself and he can’t block for himself. It’s not like he’s air-mailing balls all the time or refusing to throw to wide open guys/missing wide open guys. So I always wonder what it is he’s doing that people are really criticizing?

Like he is fumbling too often but that’s also because he’s getting sandwiched and brought down on an island by two 300+ pound dudes with biceps the size of his thighs. I don’t quite know how he’s supposed to keep them from ripping the ball out of his hand when he gets wrapped up. Or when he gets snuck up on from behind and it gets whacked out of his hand. To me, those are more like o-line failings than the QB, unless he’s just running and being careless with the ball.

I feel like they aren’t using him creatively. I don’t know if *he* is bad. Actually, I really doubt he’s bad. It just seems like we’re doing this dumb and lazy strategy with him where we say… Calvin, go out there on an island and try to win 1 on 1. Now for the rest of the team, here is the scheme where your routes are designed to open things up based on the coverage.

Like, can’t we bring Calvin into the mix ever? Streak him across the middle. Have him chip and leak out. Bring him into other areas of the field and try to make defenders pass him off, etc.

I don’t watch the all-22, but when they do slow down and show plays where Trevor holds the balls, I rarely feel like I see anybody actually open that he’s missing. It’s like he has 1.5 seconds and there are people streaking across his view with a defender in their hip pocket.

I also feel like when our o-line fails him, it fails spectacularly. Like it’s not usually just one guy getting in the pocket, it’s every single defender collapsing on him in 1-2 seconds, play after play.

Honestly, I don’t think anybody can tell you at this point with much confidence. Sometimes it’s in the 80’s here on Christmas. Usually, Florida gets little random weeks of “cold”. January can have cold patches but it isn’t really a guarantee. It may end up just being really nice and a light jacket will be good, or maybe it’ll be wet and in the 40s and you’ll want something pretty heavy. I’d wait until the last minute, check the prediction, and go with that.

brotato is the best of this genre

It was pretty irritating to be honest. I really wanted to just be all-in on Trevor and support him/believe in him being as good as everyone said he’d be. I had to stop listening to our fans and other fans who were trying to jump all over him and immediately declare he was a bust.

At times, I wondered myself, but I didn’t want to jump on the anti-hype train. So yeah, I don’t think there’s a great answer. It’s just hard because you won’t know. it is frustrating to watch other fandoms shit on y our team and your QB, too, but it’ll be more satisfying if you guys turn the corner and he turns out good.

Also, I saw the stat they showed on TNF. He’s in good company as a #1 pick having a struggling first season. All those other guys on the graphic with him turned out just fine.

People get up in arms as if the NFL changing the rules to influence the way the game is played is unprecedented.

Some stuff is more likely to injure players, so they change the rules. People have more fun watching the NFL all season when the stars are healthy. Maybe you don’t get that wild flying tackle on a QB making a highlight, but you also get 40 more highlights from the QB who isn’t on injured reserve the rest of the year.

Unpopular opinion: just change the rule so all you have to do is wrap up a QB if they’re in the pocket and don’t even tackle them anymore. Aaron Rogers getting injured on drive 1 is boring. I would’ve rather seen him play. Anthony Richardson was electric. I’d rather see him play. Guys like AR would probably still get injured because of how they play, but let QBs be safe from injury in the pocket and just wrap them up.

With the current rules protecting passers, that’s essentially all linemen are doing, anyway. They are just falling down once they wrap them up which is kind of irrelevant. You could still try to whack the ball out of their hand if you wanted and “violently” wrap them up. Just don’t bring them to the ground.

QB sneak? Boring. Just make it against the rules, who cares? lol.