Gentle reminder to everyone that support for #windows10 ends in about 90 weeks. Many computers can’t upgrade to Win 11 so here are your options:
- Continue on Win 10 but with higher security risks.
- Buy new and expensive hardware that supports Win11.
- Try a beginner friendly #Linux distro like #linuxmint. It only takes about two months to acclimate.
I know people like to hate on windows here but come on: 90 weeks is another ~18 months. It’s near the end of 2025.
While absolutely true, what you’re saying, saying 90 weeks instead of any alternative (630 days!) Is just trying to make it sounds worse than it is to push an agenda.
You’re leaving out the context that the time limit should be way longer given how long previous versions of Windows have been supported. Ending Windows 10 support when they are is a deliberate effort to force adoption of Windows 11 and avoid the embarrassment of Windows 8’s failure. They learned it’s better to scare users into compliance than to actually attract them with well developed, feature rich software. The hardware requirements just make it more egregious.
Stop giving Microsoft the benefit of the doubt, they have demonstrated more than enough times they don’t deserve it. This is them strong arming users into doing something they don’t want to do, and it should be rightfully called out for what it is: shitty.
the time limit should be way longer given how long previous versions of Windows have been supported.
The lifecycle of Win10 is actually pretty similar to that of the previous versions, which is about ~10 years. The only difference with Win10 is that it went without a successor for so long, that they’ve basically skipped one major release, leading to this relatively small timeframe between a new Windows and the EOL of the previous version.
I agree though. Given the circumstances they should’ve made an an exception and increased the lifespan for at least one or two years.
90 weeks is more like 20 month and i could calculate that off of my head by knowing that a year has 52 weeks. I would have struggled more with days.
You could make this criticism about any date metric that it gets more or less easy to translate into a different metric.
Weeks are perfectly fine and most commonly used in the business context.
Your point about weeks is irrelevant, if OP wanted to be clear with the information they would have said the easiest term (about 2 years)
I agree. This post seems like a half-assed attempt to get people to switch to Linux. 90 weeks. Jesus.
You have 5443200 seconds to make your choice.
What agenda? Freedom? Geesh, kid…
How long until Steam drops support on W10?
That’s the important event, lol
Probably around the time developers to start requiring W11. That TPM requirement is going to be abused to hell and back.
I am using windows 10 on my tv pc so that’s all I cae about.
Well they only just dropped support for Win7 and that came out in 2009.
I missed the “90 weeks” bit - you made it sound like it was coming soon, you cheeky scamp.
Windows 10 will reach end of support on October 14, 2025. The current version, 22H2, will be the final version of Windows 10, and all editions will remain in support with monthly security update releases through that date.
Gives me these kinda vibes.
I understand you want people to switch to Linux but
- 90 weeks is far away. It drops in October 2025
- You’ll still get security updates for a few years
- After that there will be paid support which people will get around and find ways to install
- Windows 10 LTSC (best version of Windows IMO) still exists. The Enterprise LTSC version will have support till 2027 and the IoT version will have support till 2032. You can get them if you know how to look around
Plus, you can actually install Windows 11 on the same hardware as Windows 10 pretty easily. Microsoft just does not want you to.
Its quite difficult to get legit LTSC licenses unless you’re a large org.
Last time I looked into it anyway. You can buy ltsc keys from third parties but AFAIK Microsoft will deactivate the license if they realize how you acquired it.
I’ll just leave this here for educational purposes https://massgrave.dev/ https://github.com/massgravel/Microsoft-Activation-Scripts
Yeah I wasn’t talking about getting it the legal way. They don’t care unless you’re a business.
All the more time for Valve to expand on Proton and push Linux compatibility, and for EA and the rest to get their thumbs out of their collective asses and support it at all
So just a minute ago I thought “Get fucked, HP” and now I’m thinking “Get fucked, Microsoft”. What a day.
These are both thoughts you should hold in perpetuity anyhow.
How long do you think is reasonable for a vendor to support their old software version once they release a new one? If they drop support in 2025, Windows 10 will have had 10 years of support. It was released back when Linux kernel 4.0 was the latest version. Would you expect distros today to support a 4.x kernel? (yes, I know RHEL still does)
You can still get longer-term support if you pay.
Not making the switch dependent on hardware upgrades would be a requisite for me. Maaany people (and things like expensive, tightly integrated industrial systems) can’t just switch to a machine that supports Win11. Also, Microsoft promised Win10 would be their last windows version, receiving continual upgrades. So I repeat: Get fucked, Microsoft
I’m sorry, what?..Oh, all I heard was that my linux home server is going to be running on new hardware in about a year and a half when all these used computers go on sale. 😁
I don’t get why people are removing support for Windows 10. Nobody likes Windows 11 and Windows 10 is the most popular operating system with no change of that in sight.
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Its interesting as I remember people saying the same thing between Windows 10 and Windows 7/8, and that they’d never move to Win10.
Not trying to discredit what you’re saying of course, but the pattern is still there 9 years later
Both can be true - everyone always hates on new Windows versions (usually for legitimate reasons) and Windows 11 captures and reports more telemetry.
Oh I wouldn’t doubt it but what really kept me from touching it was them “testing” putting advertisements in the file explorer. Hard fuckin pass.
Windows 10 is Windows 11 at this point (look at the UI and AI features)
Yeah they said that about Windows 8 too and I sat my happy ass on 7 until 10 came out.
I do not think this is happening. Windows 7 support has barely started to be removed since this year (Steam) and Firefox ESR, WinRAR et al popular big software is still updated. Infact, WinRAR only dropped XP support few months ago with v 6.02 IIRC.
Windows 10 was quite the revamp over 7/8, and 11 is just cosmetic paint plus AI garbage on 10. Support for 10 is here to stay till atleast 2 years till 11 EOL comes around, since 11 and 10 are same inside. And this is assuming 12 has fundamental developer API changes on top of 10/11.
Once Windows 10 loses support I’m moving to XP for security
I was trying to make a Windows XP compatible app last month and my god is it ever difficult. Nothing works on XP anymore, so it’s insanely hard to test/develop software. All the legacy download links are dead too, so you can’t go install older versions of things either.
I have a nice preserved ZIP of all the latest 32-bit XP software that can be run successfully without any issues. I use it on a VM, and it even has MS Office 2007! You will be surprised how new most of it is.
This is from July 2023.
You should switch to React os. It has an app store of outdated software.
And why do I need that, when I have a self curated repository for XP software for an offline XP VM, and I use updated software on Windows 10? Besides, I daily Debian Stable way more than I use Windows for specific needs.
Try making an app that runs on 23 year old Linux (GTK1 \o/). The fact anybody still uses XP in any context is insane.
Can’t modern Linux run on 23 year old computers? What are you running a 23 year old stack for?
A modern desktop? Probably not. It expects working modernish OpenGL and software rendering would be too slow.
Something very basic, likely somewhat functional.
My point was 23 years is forever in software.
You might be surprised. First, I run EndeavourOS daily on a 2008 iMac and it not only runs but is very useful. I browse the web, watch YouTube, video conference, create office docs, play older games, do basic programming, run Docker ( well, Podman ), watch movies, read ebooks, edit audio, etc. With EOS, all my software versions are up to the minute.
The reason I use that machine so much is because of where it is. I like that spot. The reason I have not put something else there is precisely because it works so well that I have no reason to. I use XFCE to keep it light and have to restart the web browser from time-to-time to free up RAM but it is fine.
The first 64 bit Intel chips were in 2007 but AMD released the K8 way back in 2003. I do not have one to try but my guess is I could install the most recent EndeavourOS on such a machine.
That gets us to 21 years ago pretty easily.
You would be amazed at the upgradability of older hardware. You can drop 16 GB of RAM and an SSD in a 2009 MacBook.
However, you can run a 100% modern Linux distro on hardware much older than that. Many distros, including Debian, have 32 bit versions that support Pentium Pro and up. Most software available in regular Debian is also available in the 32 bit versions. The package release numbers are the same. So, totally up to date and modern software. You can run Debian 12 on 32 bit processors.
That takes us all the way back to hardware from 1995! That is just 14 years after the first IBM PC!
In practice, the biggest problem is going to be RAM. Anything below 6 GB for 64 bit and 4 GB for 32 bit is going to struggle with the size of modern software ( especially web browsers! ).
I am not sure how far back you have to go before the processor is just too slow for everyday stuff. I would guess around 2003 or so, depending on what you are doing.
You can drop 16 GB of RAM and an SSD in a 2009 MacBook.
You got a tutorial for that? Because I have a 2009 MacBook and I’d love for it to run better than it does currently. I put Debian 12 XFCE on the thing and it works, just very slowly.
Windows XP was introduced 20 years after the sale of the first IBM PC in 1981.
It has one been 23 years since then!
Things certainly changed a lot more before than after.
I did this for React os
.NET 4.0 runs on XP and it is still very easy to create a .NET 4.0 application on a more modern machine. A well tested .NET app will deploy and run on Windows XP with few surprises. You cannot ask for better tooling. So, I would not say that creating new software for XP is really all that hard.
If you want to be much cooler but put in more work, check this out!
it’s gonna be “funny”: I won’t create a personal account to login to crap 11 (because why should I, if you can’t login to a desktop OS without a 3rd party account, that’s not an OS, but a gatekeeper shit), which is mandatory. So, my work machine will become unusable, therefore in fact Microsoft put my work therefore my livelihood in danger… [edit: typos]
Just this week I installed W11 on a laptop (temporarily, I just wanted to see how it ran on this hardware), and despite being connected to the it asked me, by default, for a username for the local account. I don’t know why, but it didn’t ask for a MS account first.
Pretty sure this is configurable in the OOBE of the installer. At least, it used to be in older versions.
Was this a recent windows 11 version, from Microsoft directly? And what version of 11 (Home, Pro, etc) And what region?
The OOBE changes based on a lot of factors, but generally speaking, most users will encounter the forced account creation screen.
You can get around it by typing in “no@thanks.com” or some other bullshit. Or use the “Domain join instead” option, and then just…don’t join it to a domain.
Genuine W11 iso, downloaded directly from MS website a few weeks ago, no modification. It was a Pro version if I remember correctly. I tested it on a 2015 Surface Pro. I was already connected to the network and did not click “Domain join” (I would have if it had asked for a MS account).
Just an update because I just figured what happened: I booted the iso through Ventoy, and just saw today that by default Ventoy injects register entries to bypass the online account requirement (as well as the hardware checks). Good to know.
It’s not mandatory to have an account to run win11. Press shift+f10 during the install to open a command prompt. Enter OOBE\BYPASSNRO into the prompt, system will reboot, disconnect the internet, when it prompts you for internet click “I don’t have internet”.
Easy peasy
And why didn’t they just do this as the default?
Its to stop idiots downloading cat videos and infecting the system with ransomware.
How does having a Live account prevent that?
What happens if you don’t have internet connected in the first place?
Without that command, it will not let you continue without an internet connection. If you do it a lot (I do it roughly once a week) then you can modify the installer directly.
work machine
You do not need a Microsoft account to join a domain.
if your sys admin keeps TPM on - and they would have to be nuts to turn it off - you’ll be opening an account.
90 weeks? I guess I can have another baby, and then after a while make a decision on what to do with my W10 VM installation
VMs can emulate TPM cant they? Win11 still sucks but at least it will work.
There is a TPM emulation, yes, 1.1, 2.0 - you choose
Any decent motherboard built in the last 10 years should have a TPM chip onboard.
Just use a virtual one
All my hardware is just slightly older than TPM and SecureBoot. It’s from like 2009.
People can also get an extra 3 years of extended updates, at that point TPM 2.0 integration in consumer devices will be close to 10 years old…
It’s also possible to install W11 without TPM 2.0 and from what I’ve seen, it works without any issues.
Yep, when you make a Windows installer USB with Rufus it has the option to disable TPM requirement and the need for a Microsoft account.
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I’m a certified Microsoft hater, but man, 90 weeks? I get it, we want Gnu-Linux to be more streamlined, but his is certainly not the way. This is tech fearmongering.
Honestly, this isn’t really fearmongering. It’s just fact in this post and nothing is exaggerated.
Yeah. Did you know that Andromeda Galaxy will collide with Milky Way in 4.5 billion years? Gotta watch out for that one as well.
That likely won’t cause any problems because of the sheer volume of empty space between stars.
But anyways, disingenuous argument much? 2 years in the grand scheme of things is not a long time away.
You may be pretty heavily discounting the influence of gravity.
I do not think that risk of collision based on current trajectory is the only thing to consider.
I’m not an astronomer so I might be wrong, but wouldn’t the gravitational influence of stars from Andromeda in the Milky Way still be negligible, again because of much empty space there is?
Gravity is not just attraction to the closest thing but also the heaviest thing.
As the galaxies “pass” each other, all stars will be attracted to the dense cores of each galaxy. That is going to change the trajectory of individual stars and, as an aggravate effect, the overall shape and distribution. Unless the galaxies are aligned on the same angle, this is going to drag stars off the primary plane.
As the galaxies approach, the arms will stretch out to each other. As they pass through each other, the planes will tug on each other, and after they “exit”, the arms will reach back.
All this new motion will disrupt the natural shape and trajectory of the galaxy as a whole. Depending on the momentum, it could get pulled back and the whole process could happen again ( and again ) with greater disorder each time.
Seriously considering the switch. I already have basic familiarity because of work with raspi.
In the past, it’s been support for adobe suite that has stopped me. My livelihood depends on it. Afaik theres still no native version. Can it run on wine? If so, is there a performance hit?
Older versions of some Adobe software will run, but generally no.
You can have both. I hear dual booting has gotten a lot safer lately, but I prefer to keep windows contained in a virtual machine, which has the added benefit of snapshots for when windows update eventually does something I didn’t approve. Maintaining windows is so much less stressful when it’s not running on bare metal.
If you’re very worried about performance, then you probably will need new hardware by the time you need to make this decision anyway. I’ve never actually purchased windows directly; I just find an upgrade that bundles an OEM key if I need a new Windows.
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That sounds a hell lot more complicated than installing a linux distro like mint or ubuntu.
I have to explain to my aunt how to navigate to her external hard drive every time she plugs it in to see or save her pictures. That’s with autoplay. Asking her to click on a script I set up to mount it and click the shortcut to that mount point. No way, it would take 45 minutes on the phone every time. I’m telling her to buy the extended support, cause I’m not going through upgrading her computer again. As long as that malware riddled cesspool stays exactly the same she can use it. Some people are just very bad with technology.
I meant in the sense, that if you had to install a new OS on a device, doing a beginner friendly linux distro is easier than bypassing TPM requirements and then dealing with the fallout of that in Windows 11.
I trust you not to ask your aunt to install an OS by herself.
Linux gets awesome when you have at least a the bare simplest minimum of idea what your computer is doing, but when you see it as some kind of magic box it won’t protect you against yourself. I experienced this myself with a friend who wanted to try Linux, giving them as much help as I could, explaining everything down to even make them regular tutorials if they forgot anything…and nope, to my suprise they just never understood their pc even back when it was windows…and even with all my help, it just flew over their head. While doing some overdue maintenance on their machine I just realized they always ended up seriously harming their pc with bad habbits, regardless of the OS, Windows just took it better because of how dumbed down it is for tech iliterate people.
So yeah I completly get it xD
I did that for my desktop because it has an tpm1 chip. Works like a Charme but for example the volume slider is still the windows 10 one. And what would I need windows hello for except for Logging in via faceid or something like that?
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thanks for explanation. I hope my Install doesn’t randomly break because Microsoft decided it should do so. I’d hate to throw windows away for some lightweight foss distro /s
Edit: only reason for not having moved yet is just my lazy ass
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Yeah I have been down that hole too it’s mostly all the online logins and sessions that I have collected over years of using that os(windows) and pc and some old data that I don’t really want to wipe but also don’t really wanna go through the hassle of copying the important stuff off of windows.
Also some of the games that I played used to have such obnoxious anti cheat systems that I couldn’t imagine the hassle to get them to work to be worth it but thanks to the steam deck adoption has increased immensely since I last tried gaming on Linux.
Wsl2 doesn’t quite do the trick for me it just makes me want the whole package but I use it for programming because I don’t know windows shell commands for shit and everything is tied into windows/ms at work^^
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That sounds very good I think I’m gonna try that, thank you.
A thing I wish more Linux enthusiasts were more up front about: And prepare for PAPER CUTS! Because they’re there. Most Linux folks ^1 probably do 5-6 things a day that new folks would find confusing or infuriating, just because they Get Used To It.
A perfect example: My Linux desktop is a System76 Thelio-r2 running Manjaro KDE latest, which I LOVE. Every time I boot it up, if I want to use my BT speakers or headphones ^2 I have to go into the BT settings panel, wonder why it says “Bluetooth Disabled - Enable Bluetooth”, click the button, and move on with my day.
Turns out this is because of a kernel bug in the latest kernel versions with Intel bluetooth hardware. The driver times out at system boot, and thus the system is disabled by default. By the time you’re fully booted, that time out never happens so if you just click Enable, you’re good to go.
And these things are additive. They pile up and increase frustration for end users who aren’t savvy enough to know which forums to search on or what search terms to pump into their search engines.
This does not mean you shouldn’t try Linux. Please do! It can be a life changer and a serious power up! But be aware that the path will have many small roadblocks that need to be traversed, so just set your expectations accordingly, explore and have fun!
^1: I use Windows, Linux and Mac as need dictates. Let “tool to task” be the whole of the law :)
^2: Perfect example: Many Linux users wouldn’t use Bluetooth speakers! They’d get wired ones or one of those RF thingies that has long time Linux driver support. But if you’re new, you don’t know that!
I gave Manjaro a shot recently and Bluetooth was 90% unusable for anything but my mouse. Keyboard? Nope. Headset? Nope. Other headset? Nope. Bluetooth speaker? Nope. Unfortunately, it is a brand new Intel motherboard, so I can’t even get WiFi as athk12 or whatever isn’t really done. I was shocked I could get bluetooth to work at all. Sound wasn’t that great through a USB headset either, but then I could at least hear people. For me, I can really only use trackballs now and the USB port on the mouse is for charging only. Bluetooth compatibility is very very important to me and it still being shitty on any system in 2024 blows my damn mind.
Only other potential issue would be something with how Proxmox is doing passthrough, but I had just as much trouble pairing with Debian underneath through the terminal as I did with the Manjaro VM. On another note, the GPU passthrough is amazing and I had a good time playing games for the first time on Linux. This machine was never intended for gaming, but I thought it would be fun to take a server to a LAN party. Sliger case for the win! Just a 3U.
Yeah, “brand new” hardware is rough in the Linux-verse :) I think Linux advocates need to be more up front with that as well. Quite a number of them are rocking 15 year old Thinkpads because that’s what they read will maximize compatibility.
Linux kernels are YEARS ahead of anything MS or Mac can handle.
It just takes a little learning and patience to deal with a system that belongs in the future.
Linux users complain about the kernel being so advanced and big covering industrial hw and hw not yet released in the market.
Partial list of things you haven’t tried or researched?
There is another list for realtek, you have to know the specific chip you need fw for.bcm20702a1–fw BCM20702A1
bcm20702b0–fw BCM20702B0
bcm20703a1–fw BCM20703A1
bcm43142a0–fw BCM43142A0
bcm4335c0–fw BCM4335C0
bcm4350c5–fw BCM4350C5
bcm4356a2–fw BCM4356A2
